my new ofrn pup

Ouch H, you are getting hard core in your old age. ;>)

 

:goodposting::cowboyclap:

 

Let me tell you something and maybe he will understand.
Years ago I got in a debate with Rum Crooks of the Can/am Boys about breeding dogs.
He believe gameness was a trait that all you had to do is breed game dog to game dog and it would produce a game dog.


I tried to explain to him dogs are not like game cocks, they don't breed true.
I told him you had to compound on alike genes to get the percentage of game dogs as Joseph Colby and other wrote about in their books.
Breeding is all about percentages. Nothing more and nothing else.

Now I have used every bloodline of some kind in the last 50+ years. I done every known form of breeding.
So I thought about what Rum Crooks said and I often wanted to just breed stock of ours off champions to each other long before him & I had the great debate.
You got to understand Canadians, specially Rollbar, man these guys would argue with a stop sign! :lol:
I wanted years ago to breed Koko to Ch. Smash but Curt made the mistake in taking the old dog out for one more into the same people and the dog didn't have his tools. Very stupid more.
So I checked into Ch. Red Iron, I knew he was in the GL area but sure who had him last. I called Jack Kelly and he told who had and how to get ahold of him and when I called Raising Star (the original in Motown) V told me he had passed away so I gave no more thought at that style of breeding.


Some years go by, I never had problems with the performance of the old blood. In fact I have in the past went into detail of culling whole litters and checking them out.
I was fine with it and like it better then ever percentage wise. As I still do today.


I wanted still to do some crosses but with stock from our kennel crossed and not just any cross but "forreal" champion dogs.
I was offered Ch. Red Dog but I couldn't go along with ADBA paper work again, in the way they had it. So I passed on taking him thou I did breed to him later on because of what he achieved not how his papers read.


Next some how Greg and I start talking again and Ch. Gambler came up. So next thing you know, I've got him and it wasn't because of how he was bred on his top side, I didn't care. I knew the other dogs owners and I knew the middle for many years and still friends with him today.
So in middle 90's I was crossing him into the old blood.
Best part was people couldn't do their usual shit talking about the dog because first off he was open to the world and everyone knew it. Best of all nothing continued breathing after 10. Only thing that did was taken from the event in about 10 and that was only 2 dogs in checks.
Ch. Gambler was bred over the years to some gyps he should never been bred too.
He wasn't like Ch. Iron Spike R.O.M. and could be bred to the rankest and produce. Though every time Ch. Gambler was bred there was at least something worth while.
But once again it was about percentages. Some of the other people's dogs were as low as 50%.


Then comes along Ch. Dutchess. GIS & BIS winner. I got her when she was less then 2 1/2 years old! Everyone was known to Journal judges the other side, everyone involved.
Little Jimmie of Triple J brought to my house, she was a mess. She was being kept off his yard at someone house by Hockeyman.


So thought about it and here is the chances of breeding all champions which had my blood in them and had crosses. 2 were All Around Champions (Ch. Gambler & Ch. Dutchess the only female ever to be).
I did breed Lil Honey (purest of the Bud/Judy blood from Ch. Gambler and she was a litter mate to Devil Deacon) to Ch. Hagler with no Ch. Red Dog and Ch. Dutchess in the pedigree because I knew Casino's News 2xw bred to Gr. Ch. Black Jack produced so many champions.
Problem there was Honey only had a few pups. Hagler had trouble breeding and was only produced two litters, mine and his sister, Peanut) littler.
Few months later he died.


So for the last 25+ years I have been breeding and culling this line from these champions.
I'm not interest in letting out the old blood but I thought here is a chance to have our line with crosses in it all down from champions.
I'm not least bit afraid to show the old blood. If I do, I don't let it be known.
Crazy Horse has one of the very few pictures I let out of the old straight blood from Ms. C's second litter.
Pup is now grown, he is no punk and straight bulldog.

 

Continued:


I did this kind of breeding to see how the R & D turned out.
There wasn't much left for me to try to do in breeding.


So what is my point in all this?
Each time I took these dogs, from the champions, and bred them into each other the percentage rose.
I picked what I like from each breeding and hope it would improve but like always if I stayed with line it would produced.


The point is, there is enough crosses in this blood, no need in more. family breed.


I'll give this board the key to breeding dogs, you can take it or leave it.
Often I hear "sooner or later you have to out cross".
BULL SHIT you do!!


Instead of breeding more into a line, breed less out of it, don't breed out or down in the pedigree, breed back!! That is the key take it or leave it. You are paying the feed bill.


BTW Colt knows I have frozen semen off Ch. Bob Cat II, Devil Deacon and MO. Jim.

 

Hey J, and I thought we were friends. :lol: ahhh maybe you are right, one is enough..........

 

Man you couldn't have put it any better.
It is hard to get off the good ones what you want.
Man I hate breeding dogs. When Dan had to back up out of partnership, I hated to deal with people.
I love having 5 mills in the building and working 30 dogs a day for 30 minutes. Took a few hours but I enjoyed it.


BTW I know you know why I feel a dog thief is the scum that scum scrapes off the bottom of their shoes!

 

TDK invite him to chat lol

 

I just wanna say to u old guys great advice and this thread has been a great read thanks

 

Great advice guys. Bosboy enjoy your pup never know what you will get with a pup.ped doesnt make the dog dogs make the ped she turn out right you may have ppl wanting something outta it lol

 

I liked this post TDK.time is what it takes to grasp ideas, concepts and gain understanding. The head aches and heart aches are never going to go away but when u know the possibilities... It makes handling things easier.like buying a new car vs an old one that has been evaluated with time the kinks have been ironed out..or at least bought to light.

 

Lol totally understand that but most dogs start off as nobodies to me weather its johnny down da street or ur worldclass dogman there all nothin until proven other wise good luck.....