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Todays staffords it's a shame

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by dogman2007, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. wildchild

    wildchild Pup

    Now theres a valid point! There not the only breeds that werent ment for shows, What is it with crazy people wanting to dance around in linear parade type fashion to get all sorts of colored ribbons pinned to there pooches thin skin other than to hike there price of future litters?
    There is other more deserving type of dogs who need a fashionable hair cut and shampoo job before entering crown of people with a 3 piece suit. Some folks need to go and get a labradoodle and join a "lets go to the show" forum.
     
  2. Dags

    Dags Pup

    some good stuff to read but loads of not so interesteing stuff
     
  3. and that, in a nutshell is that!
     
  4. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    I'm not sure what you meant by > "I also think the part about being more agressive from being on the chain" was that meaning you agree it's to make them more aggressive or not?
    and > "well stop reading the peta bs". means?

    Regarding the chain> it seems to make breeds like Rotweilers or German Sheperds aggressive when chained, but Staffords as you know are extremely people friendly so it's unlikely chaining them would add aggression, so the only benefit from chaining them would be a mild form of weight training them or just for convenience? it's easier to chain them than to build pens/runs for them?
    Basically my personal issue with chaining is > a chained dog is only for work/use, he'll never be considered in the same manner as a dog which lays at your feet or plays with your kids, like the dog with you in your pic?
     
  5. Dags

    Dags Pup

    but in 2012 should it not be a pet ?
     
  6. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    I agree, In the 30 years I've had staffords I only showed one, I got placed 2nd & 3rd places that day but I found the whole experience weird to say the least, just didn't seem right for a stafford to be pranced around like a toy breed or one of those elegant types.
    But there's no reason a working stafford can't also be the family pet, the two worst I had with other dogs were the best at home, they were well mannered if let inside, they were also the best with the kids, rough play, ball games, they never once showed any aggression, I suppose if he's had a rough day and needs some recovery time he should be kept in a pen but apart from that a working stafford's place is around his owners family when he's not on duty, thats just my opinion
     
  7. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    You're right, but not just because it's 2012, if you or anyone else on here remember the complete history of the breed, the first staffords (fighting dogs) were kept indoors with families, in old times in England it was common for a stafford to live with a family who may only have had one rented room to live in, often the dog would earn more money in one night than his master could earn in a month of working so the dogs were often fed better than the children so it might win and bring in much needed money.
    The dog would come home from a match banged up and have to recover while at the same time not bite if one of the children touched him where he hurt, a dog that wasn't safe even in this condition couldn't be kept, he would have been destroyed, also he had to safe for the handler in a fight, these are the reasons the stafford became so good as a pet/companion also, in those days in the UK & Ireland few people had a property big enough to have a yard, So the working dog was also a family dog, The modern working stafford kept on a chain outside is only a money machine.
    The modern show stafford is a joke, can't breathe, no neck, muzzle too short, palate & breathing issues, eyes bulging, you can hear one coming before you meet it because of it gagging for air, they definately don't have the fire or gameness of the working dog, but even the first kc reg'd staffords were still good dogs, it's breeding them to meet the strict pointless conformation invented by the Kennel Clubs especially the UK KC which has wrecked them.
     
  8. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    I wasn't goona post again as I don't like going off topic, and this thread is about "Todays staffords, it's a shame"

    BUT, you don't know what you are talking about
    I have a GSD chained the last 4 years, he is as mild mannered as can be
    he is not agressive with humans or animals
    he is great with children
    he is often taken off the chain to play, walk or be trained
    for the first 2 years of his life he did not use the insulated kennel I provided for him
    he prefered to dig a large hole in the ground under the trees to lie and sleep on, he chose to do this because he is a dog, an animal that enjoys being outside on a chain
    I don't believe that dogs outside on chains are thought less of than a house pet, on the contrary, any dog that can work first and be a great pet second is looked upon much more fondly than a lazy house pet

    a dog on a chain is there for many reasons
    responsible owners that don't allow a dog to run around, risk getting out of the yard for whatever reason will secure a dog
    a chain set up is far better than a pen
    ppl who have used both know the difference

    sorry for going off topic, it won't happen agin
     
  9. DaksGT

    DaksGT Pup

    Not all show dogs are that way though. Certain ones yes, but most I've seen around, not really. They're shorter,but still functional. People are making it sound like they can't run.
     
  10. Agree 100%!
     
  11. 12 gauge

    12 gauge CH Dog

    Staffords have had always being pets since the beginning... after they got their tasks done, excluding shows!

    I dunno what everyone is saying but I tell you what I'm not saying they cant run, my concern is for how long they can keep up. athletes and sport players dont look and are shaped certain ways just to look goodin front of the ladies
     
  12. HuntinSbt

    HuntinSbt Banned

    look i own bulldogs and 1 staff all have chain spots the reason being is they are more safe then kennels runs and usally they have a way bigger area plus running with a chain keeps them some what fit ppl who think chain spots are cruel need a diffrent breed this is my opinion when u have over 2 dogs i recommend chain spots and good ones so you dont have any accidents sen it happen alot and always check your hardware one a week just friendly advice
     
  13. HuntinSbt

    HuntinSbt Banned

    well i think what ppl are saying is size and structure only play a small part i have seen bulldogs of all shapes and sizes do great at there task so its more in the brains and veins
    althouigh a better build in a dog like 12 gage is talking about will increase your chances at working them as the best working conformation has to be seen never givin there are alot dogs that look like they have all the tools and in the end proived to be as worthless as a holy sock with no match
     
  14. HuntinSbt

    HuntinSbt Banned

    by the way a staff vs a ebt that u seen has little relavence on gameness true gamess is proved on the proving ground witch i can tell u has no place for ebts lol let alone most staffs now there are ppl out there breeding that stnadard of gameness but quick 20 min or even 45 min work is not proving much to those who are truely breeding for that the fact is most dont really want to see there dogs gameness i can also say u never got to the ring looking to gametest u are there to win gameness is something i would recomend doing with close friends or on your own yard
     
  15. DaksGT

    DaksGT Pup

    Keep up with what though? If you bought a staff to be a pet, I'm certain that any well bred (read, not overly short, fat , bug eyed etc...) show staff will out perform 95% of other conformation breeds for the activities that a regular pet owner would like it to do: running, agility etc... Truth of the matter is, that in urban areas, where majority of people live these days, there are not that many working dogs. My reasoning leads me to believe that the reason why they haven't been bred for work is that culture has shifted with the times. There are less farms and more office buildings. Humans are changing and their companions along with them.

    My dog is show bred, inbred like a motherfucker too, he's about 16.5" and 38 lbs. I'm a runner, so he runs daily with me for at least 7km's a day; I'm the one that has a tough time keeping up with him. When we go biking, he'll easily do 15k and then go play with my friends Presa shortly there after. He's got more than enough juice for what I need him to do.

    I get that he won't compare to the game bred APBT's or the staff's, but hell, he'll outperform 95% of what's out there in my city. He spins circles around my friends presa, a dog that's around 120 lbs and pretty bad ass looking.
     
  16. HuntinSbt

    HuntinSbt Banned

    lolofcoarse he spins circles around the presa but sounds like he has some good fuel in him and your right most arent country folk no more has alot to do with it but dont have to live in the country to have good workers
     
  17. 12 gauge

    12 gauge CH Dog

    why you think many people say: "stafford isnt a breed for everyone". and good for you keep your dog running.
    i hope one day you come to your senses and hopefully understand what i'm trying to say
     
  18. DaksGT

    DaksGT Pup

    I get what you're saying. Lebron James is far superior than the average NBA player, largely due to his body. Makes perfect sense. So you breed for those characteristics, once again, makes perfect sense.
     
  19. YES, there are many " structurally sound" Staffords who may not be able to carry out their traditional task because they lack gameness,guts or heart, but the show bred ,overdone caricatures with all the guts in the World will NEVER be able to compete in the real sense!
     
  20. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    My brother had a GSD which would prefer laying on the soil compared to a kennel, and the difference is, you regularly took your dog off the chain to allow him play and to train him, I was referring to a dog which is chained and most of it's life in on a chain with no socialisation or training, so lets agree that theres a difference and both our points are valid?
    as for excaping from pens, when you keep staffords which i assume you do, then you should know the only pen that will keep one in has a concrete base and heavy duty chainlink wire sides, the top should be covered or tapered in in case like my dog, he does a good impression of spiderman and skippy.
    As I said before, I understand why some people choose to use the chain, but I prefer them having a little more free movement so I make my yard secure and give the dog space, if i was housing more than one id devide/partition the yard.
    Subject debated, just different opinions
     

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