Old game Bred Bull terriers

You don't know nothing boy, you post pictures of APBT'S that are off Google, great work there.

Like I said, come back to me with these bone crunching Bull Terriers....

 

And I acknowledge you are correct. But in all honesty, the UKC APBT standard is really just the equivalent of the AKC Amstaff standard and was not the real standard used to develop the breed. As you know, Pitbulls have come in all shapes and sizes over the years and, you can guarantee that if there was a tosa or sharpei or any other breed back in the day that equaled or surpassed any other fighting dog in its weight for ability and gameness, it would have been used if it was thought crossing it would achieve a desired result. And to hell with pedigree. Doggers used what worked. Which is why, even after the breeds had diverged, staffy, Irish staffy and bull terrier blood continued to find their way into the APBT. And why stating they were all show dogs from the start ignores the facts.

 

LOL! How do you think those photos got on to Google? And how is it that I have photos - not to mention the original hi-res images - of the same event that are not on Google, and have never been posted online until today?

Someone must have been there to take those photos, champ. They didn't take themselves

 

They can spend billion but If they don't understand how to do the job it's useless cause they ruin their dogs.
Man if you said he take te throat and kill him in short time ok but 30 seconds in the back of the neck it's hard to belive. Bull terrier was a puppy with chiken's neck? Even for a puncture in a big vein take more then 30 seconds..

 

"dog man" is still not to the point where he realizes he doesn't know shit about dogs. Do more reading and less posting, even better... actual experience.

 

It was at a barbecue in Australia in the 80s. The guy who lived there owned a big male dobe and one of the guests brought his pet bully with him. When the bully saw the dobe, he went him and the dobe grabbed him by the back of the neck, shook him for less then a minute before it was broken up. The bully bled out and later died. I was asked if I'd ever seen a dog kill another in 5 minutes. It took much less than that to deliver a fatal bite.

 

So more then 30 seconds..
My sister's ex boyfriend had a big red doberman who beat up and dominated my big riesershnauzer and all block's dogs..My dog die cause cancer and i Take my First apbt, was the 1995. My Pit grow with that doberman But one day he start and after one minute the dob start to run like a gazzelle and my boy was just 8 months old..this is my only experience with dob..

 

Rubbish, stop moving the goalposts to cover your ass...

 

I've forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know Pug Ugly...

 

For those that are interested.
The Pit Bull Terrier Breeders Association set up by Guy E McCord and G H Vickery in Sept 1909 had a breed standard. They changed the name to ADBA in 1913.

Original 1909 Pit Bull Terrier Standard.



1913

ADBA Advert



Canadian Fanciers of The Pit Bull Terrier also called for a seperate breed standard in Dec 1913

 

"I've forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know Pug Ugly"

Obviously, from your continous posting of your baseless opinion.

 

Guess it's better than fairytales of Bull Terrers...

 

There is no scientific number anyone can give you on how hard a dog bites. You couldn't Guage it accurately since dogs bite harder when they want to and their is no accurate way to measure it.

I think your miss reading my post. I never stated the breed was formed from conformation showing. Everyone knows they were not. What I am saying and as R.S has posted for all to see, they have a written standard of appearance. Sure some look a tiny bit different from each other but they still have a uniform look that reflects a standard.

The tosa comment wasn't saying they wouldn't be used but based on what you said, gameness being the only standard, then a dog whose proved game of any breed would be considered a APBT which we all know isn't true. Something separates them, the written standard definition seperates them. Gamness really seperates them.

 

Clearly you've forgotten a lot about dogs then. Or was it that you never knew it to begin with?

Have you got something to show us yet, "Dogman"? Like, maybe, a dog you've forgotten you owned? I believe you said you used to have a tosa or something. How about a picture of that? I mean, it's not much, but it would be a start.

You are a "dogman" aren't you . . . Dogman85?

 

Which is really my point. If you say dog A bites harder than dog B, how are you measuring it?

But to say there is no scientific way to determine how hard a dog bites is not entirely true. Bite force has been directly measured over the years in various canines and other animals (susceptiblae, as you said, to how hard the animal wants to bite at the time). But we also have the study of physiology and basic physics: bone structure, muscle mass, leverage and surface area of bite force (which increases inversely to surface area). That has allowed science to determine - purely by looking at skulls - that a Tasmanian devil has the strongest bite for its size of any mammal, for example, and that a hyena has the strongest bite of any canine.

I've already provided a very good link which explains all this: http://www.americanbandog.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7072111

I can also tell you from experience, when you are working a dog on a sleeve, your arm will tell you whether the sherpherd, mal, rotty or bull terrier on the other end is biting hard or not. (We've even worked chocolate labradors on the sleeve - you'd be surprised!) A good dog - in fact most dogs - will bite down harder the more you agitate it. So there are ways to get them to bite harder. There's also a difference between holding force and bite force. Dogs use a hold and shake motion to inflict damage on their prey, as opposed to a straight-up bite and release. Bite-and-release is used in defence drive, not prey drive, because in defence the dog doesn't want to hold on to what he is biting - he wants to snap as hard as he can to damage/scare what he is biting in the hope it goes away. In prey drive, the bite (hold) is proportional to the "prey".

No, I didn't misread your post. We're on the same page. My point when stating there was no breed standard was in separating how the different breeds had evolved over the past 100 years - that the written standard was not used to breed APBTs like it was staffies and bullies. You and everyone else here already know that, so we can move on.

 

EBT gave some very good interesting information I am sure he has forgotten more about the dog game than you will ever know. All you do is type a bunch of crap and have not given any actual facts just your opinion and it is obvious you will not listen to any facts or information. So my question for you is if a bull terrier is a useless cur dog similar to a collie which you stated what are you doing on this thread in the first place?

 

No he had a mangy Akita when he was a boy so now he is a true dog man to the core. The guy is a joke and I wish he would make like a horses dick and hit the road!

 

Well, I guess you can base your experience on a sample of one . . .

Dobes are probably my least favourite breed - I've met a lot of mean ones - but it is hard to deny that a good dobe is a formidable dog. As they were bred to be. German shepherds were banned in Australia in the 70s, and so dobermans became very popular over the next two decades, with back-yard breeders eager to produce ever-bigger and meaner dogs. Maybe it was the "Magnum PI" effect. 50kg dobes were not uncommon in those days, and they were almost exclusively black and tan. And they had a hard bite. Try one on a sleeve and you'll see exactly what I mean. They go almost as hard as rottweilers.

Bull terriers were also popular in Australia in the 70s and 80s - APBTs were almost unheard of here, and did not reach our shores in any numbers until the 90s - but they were a different breed to what we have today. I had a white bitch who weighed 22kg back then, which was considered large for a female. My girlfriend had a brindle male who weighed the same, and later, we took in a scarred brindle bitch that had been used for dog fighting that weighed in at 18kg - most of it her enormous head! She was a lovely, sweet dog . . . until she fell asleep, and would awake and attack the nearest living thing to her. The other dogs saved us on these occasions until one day both good dogs were in the bedroom with my girlfriend when the brindle bitch turned on me on the couch. She had to go.

I didn't have a lot of luck with bull terriers after that. The brindle male was bitten by a tiger snake. The white female became one of the first documented cases in Australia of OCD tail-chasing syndrome and was put down after being studied for almost two months at the local university of veterinary science. Another white bitch after her was the first of the show line - similar to the dogs we have today. Prior to that, we never really cared if our bullies had papers or not. And most of them didn't. My girlfriend let her out of the yard and she was hit by a car. She wasn't a particularly smart dog for a bully, and I was so unimpressed by the new breed (and heart-broken to lose my previous dogs) that I avoided them after that, taking on a couple of bully x red heelers (Australian cattle dog) instead.

Like the dobes of the day, there were a lot of backyard bully breeders and dogs of varying quality in the 70s and 80s. They were square dogs, with longer backs, wider chests, fuller muzzles and no stop, but no "roman nose", either. The new "roman nose" breed started to come in mainly from the UK and after 20 years pretty much bred the local (Aussie) bullies out. The brindle bitch I have today is the last of a line dating back to some of those earlier dogs from the 80s, though she is very much a show-line type (obviously with papers) from a string of champions and looks much like any other show-line bully these days. She weighs 28kg in trim form, and is not even considered large by today's standard 30-35kg monsters.

Because there were few if any APBTs around in Australia in those days (importing dogs into Australia from any country with rabies was a difficult process, with quarantine periods of six months or more), bullies were the breed of choice for illegal dog fighting and pig hunting. I was not involved in the fight scene, but I did, on occasion see the result of it (as above). While bullies were prized holders/luggers, they didn't have the legs for the chase and were soon crossed with heelers (Australian cattle dogs) and later greyhounds and other breeds, resulting in the Australian bull arab. There are some good sites out there you can read about bull arabs, bully crosses and other boar breeds. Here are a couple:

http://www.ozziedoggers.org/

http://www.boardogs.com/index.html

The bull terrier was known in Australia - as it was in other parts of the world - as the "pig dog". Not just because it looked like a pig (and sounded like one, too!), but because the breed was synonymous with pigging in this country. Indeed, the bull terrier has a long history in Australia, and was used to create another indigenous breed, the blue/red heeler, or cattle dog - which also contains dingo, german shepherd, scottish merle, sheep dog and kelpie, to name a few. The cattle dog is susceptible to deafness - believed to be inherited from the bull terrier, which was used to give the heeler its "bite".

So the bully was indeed prized for its jaws and fearless pluck. It's popularity in the 80s arguably led to its demise, with badly bred dogs and dickhead owners giving it an unfounded reputation as a human biter. Unlike the german shepherd, it escaped being banned outright - though there were many calls for it - and, ironically, it was the introduction of the APBT in the 90s that turned attention away from bull terriers as a breed. Unfortunately the dickheads started importing and breeding APBTs which were involved in a number of incidents leading to their ban - which remains to this day.

While I owned a lot of bull terriers - and a few bull terrier-cattle dog crosses (an excellent and very robust cross with the stuborness and grit of the bully and smarts, legs and stamina of the cattle dog) - I never owned an APBT. My main experience was through friends who owned them who, while they loved their dogs, complained they couldn't take them anywhere as most were quite dog aggressive and hard to control off-leash. One of those same friends now breeds Johnson's bulldogs here which, since the ban on APBTs, have started to become popular. Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before the dickheads get hold of this breed, too, and start to corrupt it. There's already evidence of it.

In the mean time, there are still some good, old-style bull terriers in the Australian bush, but they are few and far between. The breed, as a whole, is not all that popular and suffers from a small gene pool, with a lot of endemic health issues. The dogs themselves can be soft and shy, though luckily there are still some decent breeders out there who focus on temperament and health, as well as confirmation. My current bully has the best temperament you could ask for, and doesn't have an enemy in the world . . . though the bottom line is, she is still bred for the show ring.

But what is perhaps the most interesting part in all this is that, even after 100+ years of show breeding, it is still hard to beat a good bull terrier. Next to the APBT, American bulldogs and staffies, the well-bred bully is a very tough, smart dog that can hold its own in most situations.

If that doesn't prove that the bull terrier came from good fighting stock to begin with - that it was more than a show dog when it was first developed - then how else to explain the modern bull terrier being the dog it is today despite the worst efforts of mankind for so long?

100 generations of "show dogs" that can still lick most breeds.

Don't tell me the bull terrier wasn't bred with a fighting spirit from the start.