Breeding & time when starting out.

If I were just starting out or wanted to use my time more wiser with the dogs I feed I would consider this.
After trying breeding in various ways , I found out something to stand true that I also heard & read about a time or two before.
It's far more easier & time saving breeding a good family than focusing on a single dog.
You can use a single dog as a foundation & expand on it, but you'll wind up culling more trying to get dogs EXACTLY as a single dog.
A lot of folks do things different than I 1st started & in my eyes seem to go after the new jeep or bolio or frisco, Boomerang, Eli's or whatever , rather than the families such as Colby, Wallace, hemphill ,Sorrells & so on.
Breeding a family means that you can go in any breeding a WHOLE DIFFERENT Direction & maintain quality .
But breeding for a single specific traitor two that a single dog has takes more work IMO.
To each his own, but for those starting out I wouldn't recommend trying to focus on a dog or even having a top producing dog, but rather a good solid family that all perform & produce good.


A single dog bred a single way from a single family may be great but is time consuming where as a good family may produced several dogs bred several ways but yet all by the same breeder & connected together by the same family.

 

I agree.... but if one is just starting out wouldn't they need a couple of dogs to start the family. For instance a good male and one or two females and go forth from that. In my mind if your breeding dogs you will start with at least two dogs and you will increase from there. If you go forward breeding your dogs family style wouldn't the family still be based of the initial dogs used?

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I agree with what you guys are saying....i always wanted to focus on a certain family of dogs. I was lucky i guess got with a old timer and listened and watched and learn. To this day i still runthe same family of dogs with a sprinkle of this and that.....the main thing for me was picking a good family of dogs and sticking with it and not just running the flavor of the month.......

 

Yes Sir they can be still based on the style but it go a different way such as a Red Boy has certain family traits they are known for that are different from Bolio dogs , but if Red Boy dogs are used as a main base would go like Red boys dogs are known for.
Crossed with Jocko's maintain Red boy but add to style.
Cross the Cross with Bolio Tombstone Now you have dogs Like Macho Buck that you can see some Red Boy style but balanced with the other families more than just a pure Red Boy pure or Heavy Red Boy Cross.

 

Wallace???lmao...

 

Me & folks I have known always for years, know about the Wallace family as a whole not a specific individual dog.
It's about a family as a whole vs concentration on a single dog.
Doesn't matter how you see things, but most I talk to & deal with know about the Wallace family of dogs.

 

Are there even any dogs down from the old Wallace line still around today? I cannot see how they would be relevant as a bloodline today no matter how good they were back in the 50's.

According to Stratton, He didn't let very many of his dogs go to anyone and the line was said to have died off leaving only Stratton having the last remnants. He of all people would have perpetuated the bloodline if it was possible. Wallace was like a father to him and he respected him and his dogs to the highest degree. Great breeder and great dogs. I wish they could be had today.

I have dogs with Frisco, Jeep, Bolio, Boomerang, and Eli in them. I also have some dogs with Sorrels and Colby in them. Hell, I even have them where all of these are mixed together. Good dogs come from good dogs.......

I started off with a family of dogs that were not widely known and still have dogs from this line today. I didn't blink an eye when it came time to breed them into/with some of the more popular bloodlines. We are breeding for traits and consistency and I agree with Ziggy that you shouldn't try to focus on just one dog or one family for that matter. Although I like to keep my breedings fairly close and within a general family, it doesn't hurt to add in genetics from a different family of dogs that are quality individuals and display the traits you are looking for. As long as you do your job as a breeder and be honest with what you are breeding for, you shouldn't have much trouble. It is when you become too attached, sentimental, and start lying to yourself, that is when you become your own worst enemy and lose everything you've been working hard for. So try to keep perspective and be honest with yourself.

 

I myself love the mims line of dogs...the spiffy/lucky,jiggs/lucky and lucius stuff...and as awhole the family has produced very well on it on and crossed with bolio or eli stuff but it will always be my foundation line....

 

There was a Wallace family long ago but no longer a factor, so why mention Wallace as an example if you could never get your hands on a Wallace dog???

I can agree Mr.Ziggy that if your breeding for a family that using dogs from other families is key and not focusing on one dog but rather the family as whole...

But I dont agree with what you share as it always seems to justify your unproven family of dogs, you originally had all these old names spelled wrong on thier pedigrees as sales tatics... I noticed after I ulled your card you removed them amd started to write these artcals that go all over the place off subject of the point your trying to make, which is your dogs have been worked every generation and go back to soild families, RIGHT???
By your pictures of the dogs being bred and thier ages I doubt that, and with all you other sales tatics, I am sure your full of bs...

 

Ziggy seems to have rubbed some of you guys the wrong way. I don't care that he posted his dogs every post or every other. This is a public forum. I can follow his posts and they read like what most will paste from another famous dogman about family breeding. Start with a couple dogs, breed between them, cull hard. Period. Some get more lucky than others and get a once in a lifetime dog. Some hit the lotto twice, or more. At least they try. EP I like your stories and background checks on dogs and families, BUT.... If you can't match intentions with the man, not to mention achievements, you might be a hater. If your intentions aren't to own, breed, or show the APBT, you're beat on another front. Gotta show and prove in the dogs IMO or you just ridin. Get in the driver seat. When you get comfortable it doesn't matter what others say, you just worried about your next batch of hounds

 

You know Elias Pistola You don't know me. You have never seen one of my dogs.
Sop what is your problem?
I don't care about you sir. I don't know you & wish the best for you in what ever it is your trying to do.
You made it real clear in more than a few articles written that " YOU DO NOT FEED OR BREED ANIMAL AGRESSIVE DOGS".
That's what's needed to breed hunting dogs that you yourself stated many of times you weren't into. You asked for proof then look funny when proof you asked for is shown.
So what is it that you want? A magazine cover & TV shows isn't enough for you & when using these as "proof you asked for as generations of working ", NOW YOU SAY IT'S BRAGGING.
I'm just doing what I have been doing for over 40 yrs & just feeding my own dogs & worrying about my own dogs.
I put stuff on this site & others in the past just to share info that others may ask me behind closed doors.
Everyone famous or not has something to contribute to these dogs. I have learned more from un famous names than books or famous people.
But I know that all don't read books or give info because of folks like you.
Don't hate the Player Elias Pistola hate the game.
There is a whole lot more folks such as myself doing there own thing using there own dogs.
I don't know how this started but if I had offended you @ some point I apologize.
But if you have skin so thin then why do you feed these dogs ?
These dogs aren't for every one especially those with thin skins.
All your talk could never take away any of my history. Can't take away any of my work. Your talk can never undue any of my breeding's.
But your talk trying to bring me down will never bring you up. So grow up!
This is not an office position that you can vote some one in or out of ?
But the more you carry on the more you sound like some old victim that got im barresed in front of your friends & never had gotten over it!
Like a coward , you hide behind the internet.
You do you & I'll do me. The only time I speak on you is in response only. So I ask you let people breeding working dogs do there work & share there experiences.
You don't feed or breed animal aggressive dogs remember!

 

"The test of a cyberdogger is his posts, the quality of the man reveals in time" *internet reboot*

 

We can both agree, your difinately a player ZIGGY...
Do you breed for aggression ZIGGY???

 

Well over thing I will say, not everyone has something to contribute to these dogs. Nobody here in general but overall there are some people that shouldn't own these dogs and definitely can't contribute anything too them

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It was peddlers that changed the dogs from being known by family name to being known by dogs' names said to have started from Dibo. People need to get away from that misconcept and realise that it is a body of work by an individual or group over time that defines the true worth of the prospect in hand.

 

Good post starlion, a BODY of WORK is what a true family should be judged upon...
Ziggy on a whole noBODY knows of your WORK, and I have asked alot of different peops in your area, is there anyone that can vouch for those dogs???

 

So you think you should be able to ask around someone's area and people should vouch for them?Not unless your a dumbass or a well known peddler.Who can vouch for you?

 

You could also find out first hand and not rely on third party info.

 

when you have that big of body of work I am sure somone on here can say they had some they liked but not yet???

 

I have a partner with a couple, and he still got them. I first saw Hicks family of dogs in the gazette, didn't know it was Ziggy. I could be wrong but I believe somebody had a pair hunting on television... But its football season hell I can't remember.

I don't know if you guys bumped heads before the" how she's bred "thread but you both seem to be very knowledgeable about various topics. You both have your on views and opinions and the fun thing is we all do. In this day and age no one should have to prove who they are to anyone.

Personally I get a kick out of you guys knowledge along with some other like slim, bamaman(forgive me if your left out there too many to name) both not the bashing.

EP, you told me exactly what I was thinking, I even felt she was bred the same way, I think Zig was telling me not to look back so far but to look at what's ahead. To me they were both valid points. I came here for knowledge no matter how long I've had dogs... Its true you learn something new everyday.

I know you guys are grow so I won't tell you to do anything, but can you give us some good bulldawg knowledge. Yall good at it!