... The Ultimate Bulldog Catalyst...

definitely. if you're looking for good bull terriers you've got a number of places to check. OZ, Indonesia, India (specifically punjab, russia, greece, and germany.

 

this may be interesting to some, but joe abraham had a chow x pit that was very game. now that i think about chows are nasty af.

 

Redneck kennels had a birddog named birddog that just couldnt get enough and curred out plenty of bulldogs,,, they claimed the birddog was the gammest dog they ever seen...

As always,,, I get alot of pms from those who dont care to vent thier thoughts so openily...
There was a pit pat mix that was everything a dogman would ever want,,, I am sure this cross would be the fastest results with the closest traits and genes...

 

Never thought about it like that. But I think you might be right cause I can find no evidence of a painted wolf domestic dog cross

 

I think this hypothetical fighting dingo is known as an Akita in reality. In this hypothetical where dingos are CH, are we pulling from whats around today? Or would the breeds be represented for the work they were bred to do originally?

Out of the breeds of today that are easily accessible I'd cross mine to a working example of a bandog,patterbull,or an ambully.

If I had resources and a time machine I'd cross it to a staff,bull terrier, (boxer/American bulldog), bonemouth shar pei, or any other that proved they were of equal or better caliber time and time again.

Mexicans love their bull terriers,if you're in Cali you can find some good ones.

 

I like the rest of your post but... ambully???,,, my dingo buldog cross will be known as bulldogs
when??? of tomarrow,,, so dont take that stupid hyphothethical crap anyfurther,,,
really an akita is a bulldog dingo???

 

Dingo = akita? On what planet? Dingos have been the native wild dog of Australia for 10000 years, nothing to do with anything in Japan. Maybe before mastiff blood was bred into the Akita when the English and Americans came to Japan the old style Akita resembled the dingo a little, but they sure as hell aren't even close enough to be part of the same generic family. The only dog that can be argued to be anyway related in a reasonable sense (albeit extremely distant) to the dingo are the feral dogs that hang around the extremely remote villages of indonesia and that's only because it's believed that these dogs were the ancestors to the dingo prior to it's introduction to australia

 

Didn't they cross Dingo's into dogs brought over to Australia to create the Aussie Cattle dog as it had all the traits to survive in such hot conditions.

If you ever have a look on any UK hunting forums you will see some incredible Bull Greyhounds (a type of lurcher used for hunting), very fast athletic, rangy and powerful dogs that hunt hard. Not saying they would be game but if you cross a 50-50 Bull Greyhound back into an APBT to make a 75% APBT.

For hunting a lot seem to prefer only 1/4 Bull In there lurcher as the dogs are too hard and will fight quarry rather than just catch.

 

The thing I noticed with most other breeds is they were straight ahead , offensive and was all done when they realized they were caught and couldn't escape.I guess I could see were a cross to a APBT might help some dogs from other breeds.

 

I don't believe in crossing game dogs to other breeds unless its for the betterment of the other breed;and I really don't think the game stock as a whole will get to a point where it really needs to outcrossed.

Akitas were bred for human purposes such as war,guarding,hunting and fighting,while adapting to northern latitudes. While the nature of the desert and isolation left us the dingo. If you look at the korean jindo you will find what I believe to be a genetic stepping stone from the wild dogs and precursor to what the Akita probably looked like before introduction of european breeds.There is a reason they crossed native stock with European breeds, and it wasn't because what they had was better. Meaning the TOP fighting dog with DNA closest to the dingo that an average american would know of would be an Akita.

Were talking about the movement of one of the adventurous sea fairing people of the ancient world until modern day; compared to a place that had virtually no contact with the outside world, for no telling how long since these early dogs were introduced, until a couple hundred years ago. Akitas aren't bulldogs or dingos. Red C the dogs domesticated in asia are distant product of the singing dogs of southeast asia, the ones same ones shown to have DNA similar to the dingos of australia.Not that they are the same but they represent the only thing close to what EP described. Looking at it a broad sense I think they're closer related than you're giving them credit, and certainly more so than any european bulldog.

As for the Ambully it'd have to be a truly amazing specimen, just like any other breed that was mentioned. They do exist in small quantity, and have a few generic traits that offset the problems a game dog faces after being inbred to destruction.
Just like every other breed mentioned the good quality would be more abundant if there was no legislation against finding out. Untouched legislation dealing with the evolution of bulldogs would've left us with even more diversity and a looser definition of a bulldog than we have today. The challenger could actually earn the title in a even competition where the results spoke for themselves, leaving little to no doubt as to which dogs were worthy.

We mostly agree that a bandog would be a suitable outcross with proper selection.That said I bet we'd end up with something close to a ambullshit if you crossed a bandog back into game stock and selected like the show breeders for generations.The most important part about outcrossing is that you test the offspring strictly so you can retain the good, bring in whats better, and discard anything perceived as detrimental.

 

Bully kutta and bull terrier

 

akitas were bear hunting dogs and match dogs. that's it. plus they aren't pure anymore. they're basically line bred karafuto ken x matagi x GSD x tosa.

 

Gonna have to disagree with some of that bluedoglover. Check out emperorsakitas.com. I never said they were purebred dogs, only that the origin of the breed has roots that are "related" to dingos and they fought them. I encourage y'all to rebuke everything I say,the basis of a decent argument is a controversial opinion.

At the end of the day it's a rough cur, just like if you crossed a pitbull to a dingo. That said they definitely were guard dogs and they were also owned by the Samurai. Why would anyone leave a dog of that size and heritage near an emperor if it would sit there and watch the man get murdered? Why would an emperor make his elite fighting forces, sworn to give their life for him, the responsibility to own and care for a breed that wouldn't be utilized by them? I'm not saying by the time ww2 happened they weren't obsolete, but did they ever grace a battle field of feudal japan? More than likely.

 

During WWII the Akita was nearly extinct as they were starving and used the dog for food. The breed as it is isn't the same many American soldiers after the occupation of Japan took the dogs home with them and the breed faced extinction. Same with English Mastiffs and Bull Mastiffs nearly becoming extinct and needing new blood because they couldn't afford to feed them with rationing food amounts.

 

After the recent boom of the Tibetan Mastiff and the fall out of fashion the same people are selling dogs for food in China as they are expensive to feed and it is not affordable to feed a large yard of these dogs.

 

good feedback mealsonwheels...

I see where your coming from and also think that a staff bred bully might be a catylyst that clicks as well...

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [328117] :: .........PEACHES

might take a couple generations but peaches is a fine example,,, staffs being the closest to our bulldogs makes for quicker results and even with in the breed not being outcrossed,,, it wwould be a matter of selective breeding and the luck of the breedings clicking...

I like to see all of you gentlemen doing such great research on a vast amount of breeds and history and find value in your post,,, bluedoglover has seemed to do his research also,,, and mr silva goes above and beyond with his studies... thanks for the thought out reasearched views and carry on...


On another note,,, the balance I am looing for to counter that would be someone out there hunting with there dogs and have first hand knowledge of why they would or wouldnt use "X" as the ultimate bulldog catalyst...

The men on the east texas hog hunting forum are the type,,, all buisness and no bs,,, due to origins probably...

Red Centre would be of this type and I knew when I posted my DINGO idea,,, that he might have the best response also due to origins...

If I really wanted a ultimate bulldog catalyst (besides the patterdales),,, I would go to them and trust what has fed thier family for generations,,, and agian I would choose somehting from a gritty plott/cur/cat bulldog cross,,,
and as opposed to choosing a perfect specimen,,, I would choose one thats consistant from a consistant family as thier family tree will play a bigger part the further down the line...

I like the staff catalyst idea,,, but prefer generations of worked dogs that live in a place where thier very survival depends on thier abilties,,, and work for thier food,,, no handouts!!! Again back to the all the traits I admire in the dingo,,, but do understand the dingo being an undomesticated dog would probablly take the longest to fuse properly... So yeah the dingps a little far fetched but not really that far off...

 

Man I just read this! My son has A friend who came back from Pakistan talking about those matches!!! He knew I had dogs (doubt he ever saw A real Pit Bull match) but he told me about the matches he saw the way he told it they got busy!!! Like you said garbage bags of money bet especially when two villages matched there best into each other!!! Shit I was looking to see how much A flight to Pakistan was !!! LOL

 

One more thing Gr. Champion Tuffy everybody said was 1/4 Staff! Not true, if you look on the papers you see some weird staff line but that is incorrect!! No way Bennet Clayton would bred A staff, it's A long story and I only know part but it has to do with A big bust in Calif. and disguising the blood line and throwing A raid on the animal shelter where dogs were being held, and taking them back! Also back when the UKC turned there back on 'Pit Dogs" some people duel registered, to pass them off as show dogs in Calif!

 

I know upto the early 90's folks registered them as am staff with the ukc

 

the size i very new too. they used to be mid sized. akitas didn't exist as a breed. they were called matagi. and if anything they were pets, guard,s and target practice. occasional fighting dogs when samurai were bored.

nothing more than mid-sized bear hunting dog originally.




akita were not exclusive to anyone. they were a generic spitz type bear hunting dog. now, as i said they are crossed to kingdom come.