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If you could have mentored under anyone...

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by CHUVALOFAN, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    There has to be balance with the feed. Just like with human athlete. Really you can check times going back 100 years and see 3 hours. Dogs are versatile when it comes to their nutrition. Bob fritz made very similar products for both dogs and humans.
     
    oldguy, bamaman and reids skipper like this.
  2. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Well off you don't believe feed is important just look where this thread has gone.
     
    oldguy and david63 like this.
  3. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Dam if you don't believe it's important look where the thread has gone.No way to edit anymore
     
    david63 likes this.
  4. benthere

    benthere CH Dog Staff Member

    Exactly!
     
  5. benthere

    benthere CH Dog Staff Member

    An animal cannot exhibit its true character (game or not) without being able to breathe.
    It takes more than a book can teach you to understand
    That’s why we need Mentors
     
  6. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    @reids skipper.. The statement above just about nails it for me mate, what benthere just wrote is about my whole experience around UK working dogs, it's something I'm hyper sensitive about now.. I don't mean any disrespect to you personally because I know you and you're an honest man, but when I looked at Spray's dog (scatty) that night, I couldn't believe it.. I'd just have paid the forfeit and gone home.. The dog was a stale - overworked - undernourished - zoned out looking wreck, and (believe me) that great legend just as clueless today about working/feeding a dog as when he contested Curstopper..

    I don't mean to be arrogant and without any doubt Spray was a dogman, spent all day with them, 7 days a week, 365 a year, left the warmth of his living room in winter to go out in the cold & dark with a torch to clean/walk/feed his dogs.. 'THAT'S A DOGMAN'.. IMO we were all clueless over working & fueling our hunting dogs for competition, that's why we usually got them long drawn out 3 hour marathons with dogs laid in holds, no strength or recovery to even stand up, never mind mount an attack..

    Scotsman's Max was an ace at conserving energy! If you want to know why he won against bigger hogs, then that's it.. HE CONSERVED ENERGY! Lay on bottom for hours (in hold) waited for an opponent to exhaust themselves, then came off floor and beat them up.. That's Max v Billy in a nutshell mate, it was like watching paint dry! Game without question, but at the end they hardly even had a rip in their tights.. Scotsman's Max a 46lb male who won 4 x against bigger dogs, one of which was Limey's Smokey 2xw at the weight of 55lb.. Clearly CH. Max was a good dog, I don't think anyone can deny it, but do we honestly believe he'd have beaten Massada, Ben Ryan, Oz, Dread or Bill at 55lb? Do we really believe Scotsman's Max would have beat Boon or Setanta at 46lb? I say never! First because of the caliber of those dogs and secondly because of knowledge of the men behind them!

    I never met a dogman yet who didn't enjoy getting his ego inflated, wasn't just a little guilty of selective memory with added touch of rewriting history, the UK was full of it back then and none worse than Scotsman.. The bulldog scene was only getting started when the UK DDA 1991 passed through law, we were starting to learning stuff that was rudimentary schoolboy knowledge in America, I had some Maurice Carver moments myself when other dogmen asked me stuff, they probably figured out proper quick that I was clueless as they were.. There was a few though who searched for knowledge and applied it at a far higher level than the rest of us.. Scar Kennels were among the best of them.
     
    stedz, david63, billbulldog and 2 others like this.
  7. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    @oldguy .... imo i think scatty wasnt the same that night because he maybe messed up using the enhancements ??? I saw scatty otc and he looked a different dog ...unless its cos the other was poor and a pile of rubbish lol .... i remember he was over the weight before and we took him for a ride in the car to get abit weight off .... me been clueless i didnt know that would even work .... i get where people are Coming from about raw feeding Been superior but it wasnt available back in them days and it has only really come to the forefront these last ten years ? I still think there is decent kibbles out there and like i say they just a base .... thanks for the input though mate
     
  8. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    You just burst my bubble mate lol .... i hero worshipped all them old dogmen like spray ,nkk etc .... i always thought they were way ahead of the game
     
    david63, oldguy and Soze the killer like this.
  9. Raw feeding been going since time begun mate.
    dry food is only a recent inavation.
    Even cooked food is better then dry food.
    im not under the impression any of that dry food is good.for one it dont matter how high the meat content is.all the meat used is freeze dryed knacker yard meat.for two its full of salt and suger and artificel,geneticly modifide ones at that.and thirdly even expensive high content meat ones are still full of grain.forthly,and this normaly goes unoticed,and that is the fat content in them is never over say 30%.
    thats not enough.
    its dry.and you need to soak it for the dog to digest it better..

    The Max story cleary shows the dog had the odds stacked against him.
    he had six eggs and a pint of milk before one hunt lol..
    could you imagine how he would have done with out the eggs and milk and if he was fed on even just boiled fatty meat?...the dog was clearly a world beater.
    But he would of ruled the universe lol if hed of been fed raw or stews..

    Cooking,although extreamly hot and time consuming.is far cheaper and far more nutrishinol then any dry food you can find.
    big chicken in a pot.cheap.healthy.and even you can eat it!.

    Awesome thread this.

    All the best every one.
     
    stedz, Finito, david63 and 1 other person like this.
  10. billbulldog

    billbulldog Big Dog

    The reason I feed some kibble as a base is so I don't miss all the nutrition as the pup grows up and I still swear buy eggs and goats milk my dogs always gets a small breakfast of egg and goats milk they say the best kibble on the planet is orijen i was thinking of getting the puppy formula when I get a pup but guess what I'm still giveing egg and goats milk pluss were still talking about mentors they say Mayfield was one of the best conditioners in the day he got his dogs down real fine with plenty of lungs what did he feed
     
    david63, oldguy and Soze the killer like this.
  11. Stic
    not sure what Mayfeild done or never done?
    aint got a clue about origen.
    im not knocking what you or anbody eles feeds.

    But yeah ide stick with ya goats milk and eggs..least you know whats going in it!
     
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  12. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Scatty was my pick of the litter out of the Zack x Gypsy breeding ( xara in that litter also) suppose it was obvious I'd pick a brindle ;) When Yarrakin Lad came out, I was over run with dogs so I asked Scatty's breeder to give my pup to Yarrakin, he also came up the road with Maverick, dumped them at Sprays and never went back, that's about how it went mate.
     
  13. billbulldog

    billbulldog Big Dog

    Some i cook all my meat now back in early 2000 I fed a rottweiler of mine raw one thing I noticed was his teeth were glowing white what I do now you may laugh at this ive trained my dogs after each meal to have there teeth cleaned with a tooth brush and dog tooth paste im laughing myself typeing this but thats what I do
     
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  14. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    Springview was one of the first i heard of to use meat and vegetables etc ... i still dont think it can make a bad dog into a good one by feeding alone .... @oldguy do you think them skipper dogs would have been finishing dogs if fed a better diet ? I cant see it me mate ?
     
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  15. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I agree food won't make a bad dog into a good one, but that's not really the issue? How will a great dog (fed on carbs) run against another great dog that's fed meat & fat?

    I don't pretend to be an authority on Skipper dogs mate.. I know little about Champions Buck, Rex, Dread or Buddy 2xw, I don't know what kind of characters and styles they had? The Skipper descendants that I saw were mainly what I'd call 'confrontation' dogs, meaning that so long as an opponent confronted them, they'd stay all day with it, but the very minute they felt an opponent was no longer a threat, they'd take their foot off the gas and sometimes even stop.. Max, Hagar, Jacko, Sheena Black all had this trait.. I always felt Charlie was a candidate, whereas Archie & Bash would straight out kill every hair on their opponents.. When I think about intelligence, gameness, durability and wind that was in the Skipper dogs I saw, I'd only use a 'proven' small amount of it and my model would the female below, build Kingfish into my foundation, then concentrate only on athleticism & bad intention.
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=174533
     
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  16. Feed can make a not so good dog a bit better.
    you are what you eat.
    you would be able to run or fight longer on the right diet oppese to you running or fighting on pot noodles and marsbars.im not saying diet can make one less of a cur though.not at all.
    if your naturely good it dont matter what you eat coz your good and thats that.
    but imagine you ate correct.boooom!
    Good point about would they of been finishers if they had a better diet.ide say thats something worth considering.and ide love Oldguys thoughts on that one!
    But was not there many finishers that came out of the Reid dogs?what about Jacko and Bill for example.

    And Bill thats funny about the teeth.
    dogs teeth do go threw a lot,but to save the hassel of getting the tooth brush and paste out ide just throw em a bone lol.

    Ide also like to point out there is more energy in meat fat comperd to grain.
    grain burns fast and fat burns slow.or slower.
    ofcourse some grains like oats burn slower then say wheat.but the energy of meat fat is unbeateble.superia in every way.

    I spoke with a guy once who worked developing pet food for big manufactures.he actully helped develop Yuka nuba and the Science plan.this guy because he was a "expert"told me green tripe is useless for a dog as its about 60-70% water.
    now thats a "expert"who told me that.
    i told him what a load of shit.
    green tripe is a major food for dogs.it has fluid, fats, protiens and all kinds of enzimers in it what dogs need and crave.
    Its true.dogs are most certanly ombivous.and can stomach just about any fucking thing.
    but they are preditors for the most part.and they crave a naturel Meat and Fat and Bone diet.
    the same "expert"who told me tripe was rubbish also said raw big bones are bad for dogs?
    i mean cmon!...im not saying dogs can thrive on bones alone but they can live on em just as good as they can on any dry food.althogh to many of them can block a dog up, there is still lots and lots of goodness in them.

    Also just maintaing em to exerciseing em is diffrent.
    i belive a human or a dog should have the best of diets one can find and afford if they are to exercise there bodys to near perfection.
    i would not like to go into the fight of my life if ide only ate bred for the last six months.
    i think i would be seriously hadicappd.


    Just to throw a cat in the bag...there must of been hundreds of well fed dogs that have had the shit kicked out of them by badly fed dogs down the ages.
    hahaha.guess it can just work out like that i suppose.

    Nothing is certain.be boring if it was.

    All the best.
     
    billbulldog, david63 and oldguy like this.
  17. Nice post mate...

    I forgot about Jacko droping dogs.

    I dont class a dog that dose that as a rough cur.im under the impression they just wanna fight with something whats still in it.
    its like you beating the shit out of somebody untill there standing there wobbling sencless.and then just going on and on untill there head is a bloody pulp on the floor..youed leave em if theyd had enough i suppose is what im saying.haha maybe the dog (Jacko)felt this way!

    LOL.
    maybe he though youve had enough.weres another one?
     
    david63 likes this.
  18. @oldguy.
     
  19. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    One of the challenging aspects of the feed riddle is analyzing what comes out. High fat even high protein can lead to runny stool. Too much feed in general can lead to runny stool. If the consensus is small compact firm stool is optimal and an indicator of healthy digestion, well then what I consider mid grade kibble, ex. Victor high pro plus and Purina pro plan sport (neither grain free) is more consistent in terms of digestion in my experience than green tripe, eggs, fish and meat fats etc. This topic matters to the fool with the shovel.
     
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  20. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I'd tend to agree with you, but it would be interesting to hear others views on it?

    Heard CH. Sheena Black laid waste to Limey's Fox, then just came off her and stopped on top.. Always been a big Sheena Black fan, still think along with Scotsman's Tania, she was one of the best producing females in UK.. Yarrakin Lad would straight out call Sheena a rank cur, probably thought he was getting a dig at me, so I'd bait the fuck out of him about his pride & joy Champion Curstopper being sired by Hagar who stopped on top (twice) then Hagar being sired by Scotsman's Max who was taking the count v's Smokey :D then fact Sheena Black's dam (texas minnie) was Scotsman's Max grandam haha! I don't pretend to know the answers, although pretty sure the Americans go through same arguments over their dogs too.
     
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