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Bulldogs in Japan.

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Wally123, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    I will simplify things for you.Its just like AGK said if the Tosa was that good then that's what the majority would be using and Japan wouldn't be importing APBTs..
     
  2. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    Well for one they are not as game, they don't do as much damage to each other and they are not as exciting to watch.
     
  3. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    they are not much better than most ninon ken. and jindoes are used with success as well.
     
  4. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member


    Usually the best Tosas are in Japan and the best Apbt are in America....majority of pitbulls from America that were sent to Japan are second rate and usually not of top caliber/quality. I can recall a while back when the Japanese were getting fed up with Americans ripping them off by over charging them double or triple the price with sub par quality bulldogs. Also I wouldn't doubt that European dogs like in Serbia and Romania could have some apbt cross in them as even certain Japanese dog men have crossed the apbt with the tosa creating bigger hybrid/cross dogs that can compete within closer weights with the pure bred tosas.


    Although I have not read strattons books in a great while I don't think Stratton meant that a bulldog would be too quick or powerful for a tosa. What I think he meant is that if the bulldog can survive the initial on slaught of a tosa for 20-30min. he would win the match on gameness/stamina alone, having the tosa exhausted and about to cur out when playing by Cajun rules.


    Size does matter. There are a lot of other larger breeds of dogs that bite harder then pitbulls, but what separates the pitbull from all others is his gameness/heart.....Only game animals can take what they dish out any other animal will usually cur out very quickly. The lion is touted as the king of the jungle but when a adult bull elephant walks by the lion bows down as size does matter LOL.
     
  5. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    I wouldn't agree with that, I can see the Japanese having top quality Bulldogs. These people are very intelligent and wouldn't be using rubbish.

    No Stratton paints the picture of the Bulldog being all over the Tosa from the get go, he even had a picture in one of his books of a Bulldog called Buster on top of a so called Tosa, the dog looks like a German Shepherd to me though.

    Of course size matters, the Tosa though is a fighting dog and has got more heart than other big breeds although I've seen a Alabai go a hour with a Bulldog and win.
     
  6. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Im Smh. Reading this b.s. Lets go back to the Famus Colby's Pincher. 24 xw. Men seached the planet for a dog of any breed, to fight the great Pincher only to lose there money, and most of the time there hounds. Nothing ever lasted over 40 min with the Pincher..70 lbs c.w. One of the Greatest match dogs that ever lived. Also "Bigboy" 80 lbs c.w. Strait killer won 9 with nothing alive. Today we have Chico's International Ch. Biship 4 xw. 60 lbs wt. Will kill any Tosa, Aika, or what have you.This has been proven time and time again. Thats Right , The Dex said it ! A real game bred catch wt. bulldog will kill any other breed of dog and has done so since the late 1880s to date.
     
  7. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not but those are the facts that most bulldogs sold to the Japanese was of sub par quality. I am not saying that every single bulldog sold to Japan was sub par but majority of bulldogs sold to japan were crap unless the Japanese had a reliable contact/friend in the states. Japanese are intelligent when making electronics LOL, when it comes to bulldogs every one has different standards and ones mans trash is another mans treasure and the Japanese had no choice but to use whatever was sold to them by the americans. When it comes to breeding bulldogs and perpetuating the bloodline the Japanese cant do it as good as americans.


    No Stratton does not paint that picture this is what Stratton wrote and I quote> Most tosa wins occur within 15-18 minutes. They tend to lose matches that exceed that duration......which is almost exactly what I was saying in my other post as that is usually what happens when any LARGER breed of dog challenges a smaller apbt......what you mistook for they way you are thinking now is because of that one article to the Gazette by davis mills of his experience with his 57lbs apbt going against 3 tosas, that lasted 20 mins each.


    Although the tosa has more heart then other big breeds they cant hole a candle to a Apbt. The Alabai was a exception to the rule only because he outweighed the bulldog by many pounds. Imagine if the rolls were reversed where the bulldog was the bigger dog , then no breed in the world would stand a chance against the apbt.
     
    lansford101 likes this.
  8. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member


    Ok Dex calm down we know , we know LOL
     
  9. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    Those are the facts are they? Don't mean to sound funny but that's a bold statement, how do you know it's a fact? Take it you believe Gr Ch Thunder is a poor Bulldog?

    Stratton mentions the Tosa in every book of his tbh, he has no experience at all in Tosa's, just going of hearsay. You really believe that Buster went up against 3 Tosa's and dominated with ease? It just isn't happening, like you said if a Bulldog is going to win its going to be bottom dog for quite a while.
     
  10. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member


    I guess you did not comprehend my post very well as I never said there aren't any good bulldogs in Japan. If you read what I wrote I said majority of bulldogs imported to japan from the states were of poor quality BUT there are a few that was of good quality, with Grch.Thunder being one of them. Obtw can you name me just 4 other bulldogs close to Thunders caliber in Japan? I highly doubt you could LOL.


    Stratton is going on the testimonials of others experiences that he has met. I have no reason to doubt others first hand experiences. It could be that those 3 tosas were of poor quality or that buster was a better then average bulldog. Its not hard to believe because buster is a catch weight dog at 57lbs. One of the tosas he fought was 13 years old and a champion, they didn't say anything about the other two tosas age though as there could of been many unknown factors involved.

    Facts are bulldogs have beaten Tosas in Japan any many places around the world and vice versa with the bulldog always being at a disadvantage due to there smaller size.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  11. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    I was a member on a Japanese dog forum, a regular poster was Touryukai Kennels, a Tosa and Bulldog man, the site has shut down now. It had lots of articles and pics of matches between the two breeds.

    Don't forget the Tosa has improved massively over the years, the reason being the Bulldog infusion. But even he says the smaller Tosa's would still get beat by the bigger Tosa's with little or no Bulldog blood in them. The proper conventions are not like the show fights to the general public, they have harder rules. He also told me behind closed doors the bitches are rolled, something that is forbidden in their matches.

    Another dogman used catchweight Bulldogs to train up his young Tosa's, who knows the quality of his Bulldogs but he did it nevertheless. Touryukai said occasionally a Bulldog does well in the Lightweight category but is far from head and shoulders above their dogs and would soon come unstuck against a Middleweight Tosa, he was an honest guy and always backed his claims up with pics.
     
  12. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    okay. game doesn't cross well certain curs. ebt x apbt and star x apbt does okay, but i ain't putting a bandog in the fast lane.
     
  13. PlugUgly

    PlugUgly Big Dog

    "star x apbt does ok".... whats a star?
     
  14. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    Think he was trying to write staff
     
  15. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Its been said Bass Tramp Redboy was game tested into a 125 lb APBT / Great Dane cross and said if the roll would have went to the end Tramp would have been killed..So yep thier is always exception to the rule.I read this on another site from a eye witness.
     
  16. Wally123

    Wally123 Big Dog

    Interesting, wasn't Redboy a catchweight dog as well?
     
  17. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    spell check.
     
  18. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    into a bandog? interesting. where'd you hear that? sounds neat.
     
  19. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Was that day, not worked and pulled off the chain at 60 lbs ..Also it was summer time.So tough sledding that day for Redboy , he did pass the test.
     
  20. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    The APBT / Great Dane cross was lean as he was allowed to roam free.
     

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