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Captain's Ramblings

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Mashamplan, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    I've very recently been sent some strong views by the late Captain. Would it be in order if I posted some here.
  2. Sure, we all want to know what the old pedophile has to say about the voices in his head. He was a POS in life and a POS after life
  3. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Feel free.
  4. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Lol. I have heard lots of nasty things about him. Didn't know him personally nor did I have any direct contact with him.
  5. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    In the early 80s, we had many decent dogmen in North America. I was friendly with most of the good dogmen, and I was especially close to the ones from Pa.One day I was in Red's house and he showed me black dog and asked what I thought him. I told him in my opinion that the dog could not win anything, and hence.................. LOL This Black dog was called Chainsaw.
    Red.B is a much better man than me and he said he was going to match the dog into STP. Many people including Red had a good relation with STP, and I always thought STP had an eye for the dogs.I thought that STP avoided any tough competition, because in those days Hardcore used to challenge STP regularly and again I thought STP was not willing to scratch. Just my opinion, however I knew STP had a good eye for the dogs, so in a roll or a match, if he sees a good dog, he will buy the dog, find some beginners to match this dog 200$ and then make him a champion, Gr.Champion etc.etc and SELL for big money to Europeans, Asians, Russians etc.etc.Nothing wrong. A good businessman.
    As usual STP will not leave his kitchen so Red had to go all the way to STP.Willy here should be able to correct any of my details because I am sure he remembers more than me.
    Red wins the match, where Chainsaw's both the legs were broken and still he scratched on 2 stumps and won the fight. To be frank, till THIS date I HAVE NEVER SEEN such a thing with my own eyes.I see in European and Russian reports regularly dogs breaking both legs,shoulders, jaw etc.etc and after 2 months the same dogs fighting again!!!!!. I have no comments on that because it is Russia and Europe where every dog looses dead game.!!
    Anyway Chainsaw wins this match and is retired for good. Now you guys can see how little I know about these matters when I said that Chainsaw should be put down.
    Chainsaw's father was a dog called Mojo, who was very hard biting dog but would not scratch- in my view-a rough CUR. Yes A CUR. Red.B. offered me Chainsaw to breed, and for once I broke my guiding principle, and bred one of my good bitches and I got a few pups and as agreed I sent Red.B. a few pups.
    All my pups were extremely strong , and they would fight ferociously, but when taken to the corner, they would not scratch, just like their Grandfather. All the pups I had out of Chainsaw and my bitch were the same- will not scratch -in my opinion just curs.I got rid of a few mine by the time they were 18 months and Red felt I was too harsh, so I sent RED all the remaining young dogs out of the litter . Red kept them till they were 3 years old, and not ONE of them came out of their corner. I am sure Willie also had some pups out of Chainsaw, who proved himself was a very very game dog, but his father was a cur.
    To me I will not breed when I know there is a cur in the past 3 generations. That is me.
    What you guys conclude, and come to different decisions is a matter of philosophy.
    2017-03-29 17:33:28: K. P.: THE EL KAPITAN!
    "Around the mid 80s the American dog scene started sliding fast into an abyss. I could see this coming a long time ago, and I spoke up and for that I was disliked .I have stopped my subscription to SDJ and I was a member when it started as hand printed magazine, the first edition coming out in 1970. After mid 80s, more match reports were just a product of imagination.Most drug dealers came into the dogs. Either they bought dogs or they stole them, and people thought nothing about buying a stolen dog. Stealing dogs came very common in USA. I remember the time when a dog was stolen from Andre Giroux, he went straight to the thief's house, knocked at the door, shot the thief right in his stomach and took the dog back home. There was no more dog stealing in Canada. Andre spent a few years in jail for that. Those were times when the law did consider the circumstances.
    Not only the matches were fake, and in the real matches if the wager was 300$ it was written as 30 thousand $. If the match went 15 minute it was written as 1hour 15 minutes. There was no more truth, everything was spiraling down. Roll was written up as a match, a man was beginning to be known by the name of the dog!!! Every body knew the ART dog, but not many did not know the owner! You understand what I mean? Many people got out of dogs because they did not want to get involved with the drug dealers and the pimps and the thieves.
    It did not matter to me, I fought them all, and I burned their pockets. Good dogmen was scared of the money of these drug dealer, to me it did not matter where the money came from. The moment I cut the people to 5 or 6 to a side, the drug dealers had no more big money to bet.
    Maybe some of the members here like Wardog may remember these characters. I will just call him "LOGUE", one of the bigwigs of street business in Columbia SC. He had a 4XW called 'Hawk'. I fought this Hawk with as much money they could muster with a 16 month dog I had. This would be around 91-92. These guys were getting dogs from Pitbull Rick, Kirby Chavis and such people, so I never even hesitated for 1 minute. Logue and company wanted to match for 40 thousand and I said ok. When the day came to put the forfeit they reduced to 10 thousand and they had problem to put the full forfeit so i gave them 2 more days. When it was over the 4XW Hawk tried to jump the pit in 40 minutes, they lost their ill gotten money and never bothered me again. I think even today they will not speak bad about me. You can beat their dog for 300$, they are back barking like the curs, but you hit them hard in their pocket, they respect you and are gone forever. This is the same today. All these guys tell me they fight dogs NOT for money, but for the SPORT. LOL Many of you are rich that you can afford the luxury of matching dog as a past time, as a SPORT. I cannot as I make my living from this 'sport'."
  6. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    There are many many things we do not speak and much of that, we take to the grave. Nobody has talked about the sequence of events after a dog called Pit General was stolen. It is of no consequence to anyone anything which happened afterward. Mr Mayfield's then partner, Jimmy Jobe was shot and killed.

    I am not sure Ricky Jones is alive or dead. it does not make any difference. Ricky Jones can be credited with changing the whole dog scene. He is the modern day dogman who started using Kennel name.- Rebel Kennels. Before the Kennel names were used by people who was showing pretty dogs in pretty dog shows, and Ricky Jones had come from such a background.
    Jones had champions and grand champions and many many dogs with title. There must be somebody on this board who had matched a dog with Ricky Jones. Anybody? I can predict, if anybody has done it- the guy had to go to Rickys house and a very good party on drugs and alcohol, and matched his dog for maximum 500$ and lost the fight fast. This was the typical of Rickys fight!!. Ricky gave the impression that he fights dog for much money and most believed it. Ricky wanted to challenge me because I had called him a 300$ dogman. We talked once on the phone and I told him I will meet him half way- which he refused.
    Kenneth Alan phoned me once and said that he was planning to match 4 dogs with Ricky Jones going to his place and I advised him strongly against it. Kenneth matched these dogs for considerable amount of money and I make it a point to find details about possible opponents well in advance so I knew all about Ricky Jones finances. Kenneth had no chance to win, if he won then he would be getting paid with fake money .Kenneth lost all 4 fights in a manner which was dubious to Kenneth and then he talked to me again. I simply shrugged my shoulder and said, you made the decision, so you pay. That is all you can do as a man with honor. Then he told me this "Captain now I understand why you do not go to peoples house and insist they meet you in the middle"
    Ricky Jones was not busted for drugs or dogs, he was busted for counterfeit money. This was the time millions and millions of counterfeit US money was circulated in USA, presumably by Saddam Hussein of Iraq. No government will tolerate their economy to be sabotaged. Ricky was just a small fly, but they needed information. This I believe to be the facts of the matter.
    Rubbing dogs are rearing its ugly head again. Every where you have to be extremely careful. If you bring them out of their country, meet half way, then the chances of foul play is reduced greatly.
    Flipboy can verify this if he wants to, as he is just an innocent bystander. I was in Philippine just recently. Two good guys made a match in front of me. So I suggested to both.:- After you have washed your dogs, each person take a clean sponge and wipe his own dog and squeeze a few drops in his own dogs mouth. People who matches dogs will understand why and for what etc.etc. Both parties agreed immediately.Flip boy can comment if he wants to.
    This I will insist in all matches, and if a party does not want to do it, then it is better I find some one else to match
  7. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Looking at the records of Champions and Grand Champions in SDJ, you may come across a dog named Z-BOY. I am not sure if he was a Gr.Champion or just Champion. The record also will show that the owner as Pitbull Rick or Magic pitkennel. I will narrate here one his glorious fights. I was at this time living in SC with a few dogs. On my way to the town of Orangeburg I had to pass Pit Bull Ricks house. This was the time all the guys, most of you heard of- like Chavis, Tant, Pitbull Rick, Diamond Dan, Hill top Mike,Gangbusters ,Texas Ron, Melvin Gainey, Sandhill Chris and many more were based in SC. I moved to SC looking for battles.I do not want to go on a tangent, so let me stick with Z-Boy.Naturally Rick has been keeping Z-boy in some sort of condition all the time. One day around 1700 on my way back home, I stopped over at Pitbull Rick. It was not a good day for Rick as he had not sold any dog for 2 days and he was broke and he was trying to get some money to put some food on the table. Please- you have not misunderstood- that is the way a few dogmen lived, day to day, and if they did not sell a dog in a week they had problems for them to survive. In praise of Rick I must say he was one of the few who made sure his dogs ate before he ate, and for this ONE reason I tolerated Rick with all his misgivings.
    He told me that no "fish" came and he had to get some money as he was desperate.If I could lend him 50$ for a few hours, he could make a match with Texas Ron. Ron usually got on to hard liquor by 1000 and by evening he would be hammered and Rick wanted to catch him and make a match that night!!!!. He got on the phone and within a few minutes, made a match for his Z-boy. Naturally Rick kept his dog in half decent shape hoping to catch someone like Texas Ron. The match to take place within 3 hours. The match was for 50$. Z-Boy vs Texas Ron's Vodka (yes the name of the dog was Vodka). I think this was Z-boys 3rd or 4th fight. (Somebody could post the wins of Z boy?) Within 2 hours Rick was in Texas Ron's place and I just tagged along to protect my 50$!!! LOL. Because of the short notice,there were not many people and I was banking on that, but there were about 15 people or so. This dog Vodka was a better dog, but kept by a drunk, who came right off the chain. Z-boy won, Rick collected the 50$ and I got my 50$ back, and one more win for the dog who will become Champion or Grand Champion. These are the facts. I have seen with my own eyes,Rick and Kirby Chavis sending dogs to far away places, selling these dogs for 3- 4 thousand $, the dogs they buy from flea markets, shave their tail of thick bushy hair and sell them as Redboy Jocko.
    Only if people have the eyes to see, most will get out of these dogs because most of them have the product from people like Kirby Chavis, Pitbull Rick,Norrod and so on and so forth.
    This is how we lost our heritage.
  8. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Two key figures in this narrative is no more with us- they are Pitbull Rick and Ratliff(untouchable).
    All this happened in the early 90s and I was in the thick of things-as I had moved to SC looking for opponents.
    PitBul Rick had already moved to SC from NY and operating under the name PitMagic Kennels.(may be Magic Pit Kennels?) The dog Daisey may was bred and owned by Rick and I have seen this bitch in his yard as an old bitch. He bred this Daisy Mae to Buck when STP owned Buck. Out of that breeding came Buktus and some other dogs named Leaky and Saline etc.etc. All these dogs were bred by Pitbull Rick. Rick in my view was a very good person at heart, but he had his personal demons to fight and also had to fight the "monkey on his back" I still keep in touch with his widow and she has seen more about dogs than most of us will ever see. In my rough estimate Pitbull Rick might have 'dealt' in over 3000 dogs in his life, because he lived by dealing dogs.
    I have written the same narrative when Untouchable and Rick was living so I am not writing something when the main players are not living anymore.
    Rick rolled this Buktus when he was very young and did not like him, and sold him to his neighbor- Marin Kennels-a start up kennel- for 50$. Marin Kennel kept Buktus for some time, rolled him and did not like him , so sold to Bubba Davis a.k.a Diamond Dan for 50$. Bubba did not like the dog and exchanged Buktus to the veteran Ratliff.
    After Ratliff getting Buktus there appeared in SDJ 2 reports about Buktus winning matches. None in that area knew whom Bukts won against and started pointing fingers at Ratliff. To put the end to all these whispering Tom decided to make a match in front of all the nay- sayers in SC area. Ratliff got in touch with his friend Scrapyard Mike , and asked his help to find a proper opponent in the local area. Scrapyard Mike quickly found the opponent in Marin kennels (the same guy who had Buktus from Pitbull Rick). Marin kennels has been in dogs at this time about 2 to 3 years and had at that time a dog of dubious breeding- supposed to be a cross with a Bull Terrier or something like that. So the match was set between Buktus and Marin kennels Terrier cross dog.I think the wager was 100$ . This is where the 'game loss' happened to Buktus in about 40 minutes (I am not sure of the time). After this game loss there was another win for Buktus, again no one in the area knew about the opponents. If anyone of you have access to Buktus 4 matches as reported in the SDJ, it will be nice of you can post it here. I stopped getting SDJ in the late 80s because I could see that most of the matches reported were pure fiction.
    The above are the facts in a nutshell. What Buktus produced etc.etc. is not known to me personally except what I have read in various publications. It is possible that Buktus could have produced excellent dogs, but the above is a narrative based on facts that I personally know. It will be interesting to hear from others who has PERSONAL knowledge regarding any other related facts.
    Malice towards none.
  9. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Things were not always as appeared to the outside world. Once, it so happened, I was with Tom and he said he was going to see and do some dog deals with Wildside.We pulled up to his driveway and Ed greeted Tom warmly and they went about their business. Tom had a chainsaw(not working- some small problems) and a gasoline powered lawn mower(which also had some malfunction). Tom did manage to trade these 2 items for a first class match dog and a prospect. On the ride back Tom asked me if I wanted to buy the match dog for a brand new lawn mower, as Tom had no more lawn mower to cut grass in his dog yard.
    Ed is still around, may be not so free, but I knew him when he lived in the Cold country, way up North. At that time he was working in a pet food store and he had bought 2 dogs-pitbulls of course. He then invited his coworker to come and see the wonderful sport of dog fighting. So the coworker came and Ed did roll the 2 dogs for a few minutes, and the co-worker promptly reported that to the police. This is the dog-fighting bust he is referring in his book.
    Now about the lawn mower- In those days Bubba davis a.k.a Diamond Dan(Gr.Ch.Ms panther fame) was one of the top dogmen in S.C, at least I was so told by Diamond Dan and his partner Hill Top Mike. They had this special keep called 'lawn mower keep'. The dog was securely tied up with a heavy chain and the lawn mower was started, and the dog goes into a frenzy- so after securing the lawn mower they go and have couple of beers and come back after an hour or so. You can imagine the condition the dog would be and when they told me how they will condition their dogs by lawn mower keep, I truly admired these guys because they knew about "maximum stress" before the late Millmaker thought of the word even.
    May be someone more familiar with this lawn mower keep can compare this to hand walking or the Treadmill?
    There are many many "keeps" just like there are many many bloods, and I do not want to give out all the secrets.
    For the lawn mower keep, if you are a novice it may be a good idea to remove the blades, and better idea not to use this in your garage where most of you may be working your canine athletes.
  10. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    2017-03-30 07:47:31: K. P.: I am of the opinion men of the past were much better than the ones we see today. The dogs were much better in every aspect. I give below a write up by George Read in the1920s about game dogs. He describes them as 3 types. In his own words.

    The Sticker. And that is about all. Here is the proverbial mutt. Anyway that is what he looks like out of the pit.But,boys,beware! game dogs of this type is generally closely inbred, thus accounting for their many weaknesses. Likewise remember doubly intensifying their gameness. They area bear for absorbing punishment, seeming to actually like it and thrive on it. Their fighting instinct is ever present, but the other dog's superior strength carries the fight from the start. Some specimens of this type even go so far to lay around and let their opponent chew and throw them all over the pit until he becomes exhausted and then they stagger up all bloody and repay the debt in full, winning the fight. The best example of this type I know of in this part of the country is owned at present by F.H.Mc Lain, Paddy Mac- Colby Country blood lines
    (the above was written and published in 1926. I can say from my personal experience, Don Maloney and Andre Giroux of Montreal had a few of these wonderful deep game stickers)
    2017-03-30 08:16:38: K. P.: EL KAPITAN 3:

    This is the boy who ran the wind -bags to cover in Louisville,Ky. On Jan.15 , 1926 he killed the good dog Kurtzendofer's Jerry in 28 minutes. On May the 5th he killed that crack fighting dog Koch's Duke(161357) in 27 minutes. He is open to match. I bar none at his weight, 40 lbs., and also Lighthouse Joker at 35 pounds, Little Queen at 24 pounds, Bess at 27 pounds.
    The so called best ones around Louisville are cordially invited to get any of these at the weight, for any part of 500$, or I will fight them for nothing. H.H.Morris preferred and his so called best ones.
    I own these dogs and I back them with my own money in the pit fair and square.
    2512 Congress Street, Louisville,Ky.

    The above is a challenge posted by Mr.Beuther in 1926. As any one can guess this was directed to Ham Morris.
    500$ is a lot of money in 1926. I always liked people like Tommy Beuther.

    The quality of dogs and men have steadily gone down."
    2017-03-30 09:53:54: K. P.: THE EL KAPITAN 4:
    I cannot understand the motive or purpose for many dogmen to make a simple problem into complicated mess. it is my belief, most dogmen has just started walking on their 2 legs, before they were walking on 4 legs.(expression borrowed from California jack).
    Recently a member here had a match. He won the match and he said he would make a deal with me with this dog as I have shown an interest in this weight. Unfortunately the dog did not survive the battle and the owner informed me so. I wrote that after a strenuous, hard fought battle it is better to give NO SOLID food for 3 days, but just Soup. May be the owner knew this already, he was polite to reply "thanks".I have lost a few dogs on the 3rd day, because of the lack of knowledge. I remember DWB loosing a very good dog on the 3rd day, because after 2 days of soup he decided to give solid food. I am stating all this from my experience and drawing my own conclusion. I am not interested in a discussion with anyone who feels what I am saying about soup for 3 days- go ahead and do your own thing. In all probability these guys never matched a dog or will never match a dog but they want the whole world to know that they are real dog fighters. These are simple matters, but no they want to discuss and argue and call bad name on such tings as what blood will mix with what blood. People who has some brains, just think about it.
    I get a few PMs from people asking what he could have done better in the conditioning as he just lost a match..
    What can I say except to draw from my experience. I can state my most recent experience. I had a match with Miki from Philippine. Very nice people. It was a very hard fought battle in high temperature.. It was not one sided but I thought I had the upper hand. Just over the hour mark, on the first scratch, my dog quit standing on 4 legs. What can I say within reason, except my dog was not game dog? I could not have done anything in his conditioning which would have made him win the match. Truth is there before my eyes. I hoped he would be game enough to make one or 2 scratches when he was not tired, and not getting killed. My assumption was wrong- he was very poor dog- to put it bluntly he was cur. To me this is the simple way to look at things than make it complicated by stating that I should have run him 2 more minutes on the mill etc.etc. These are the kind of RUBBISH most of these Neanderthals dogmen is interested to discuss.
    Every pitbull is NOT a fighting dog. Now a days, I would make a wild guess and say 7 out of 10 will quit under 30 minutes, irrespective of the condition you bring your dog. Mad max, Pat of P@A kennel etc.etc. we all got together and rolled 4 set of dogs for 30 minutes. All 4 quit under 30 minutes.
    If your dog is NOT a good worker, the chance of you winning a match is very very less.
    There is much talked about match between Jeep and Budo. (1XW against a 2X W) I can take a bet that this will be over under 1 hour.
  11. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    In early 90s I was in the Carolinas, as always, looking for matches. In that time frame,was the 1st UFC with Hoyce Gracie winning the tournament. This was high exposure event. I had a few friends who were in contact sports, and some of them had bulldogs.There was one person, who is now well known in UFC, came to talk with me a few times about dogs, training, food etc.etc. At that time I had improvised some "chain pulling " system . This sportsman was intrigued by my system, and I was later told that a very similar system is very common in that sports. A few in Thailand uses that system as CEK by constant spying on me got to know this system. I am sure that many pit-men in many countries use very similar systems.
    I have no comment if pulling chains or weights, or running on treadmill is good or bad.When the subject of conditioning comes, I prefer to keep my thoughts to myself. I have privately talked with a few on these matters, as I knew those guys did match dogs.
    In a battle, when my enemy is armed with bamboo spears and I have machine gun, why would I be stupid to tell my enemies how to get a machine gun?

    2017-03-30 14:19:02: K. P.: PART 6: EL KAPITAN TALES

    What is this nice workout ? To me it is getting up at 0400 and working my dogs till about 1100. To you a nice workout means - the dog to go and get your packet of cigarette from the table? So what is the next step? You come and sit in my house and see I do nothing, and I come to your house and sit that your dog does nothing.? Why not think in a different perspective? You want to see whose dog is better? Right? Why not when you come to the pit side, we exchange dogs? Do you think this is a good idea?
    Yours is not a new idea. I had very similar discussion with a young man who told me that he will never be without these bulldogs and his devotion was openly displayed with several tattooe on all part of his body.
    He said he wanted to match with me but I wanted to fight for much money(1000$) and if I could come down, he would definitely fight with me so I agreed to match at his money level- 300$
    Then he said that, now the money is ok, but I could be using steroids so he cannot fight me. So I agreed to give him whatever steroids he wanted.The next hurdle was, he did not know what steroids to give and the dosage.
    There were never ending hurdles why he could not match with me or for that matter with anyone. Finally about 2 years of this discussion, the guy just disappeared. Like you, he wanted to know which dog would be better without conditioning, steroids etc.etc.
    One day he called me out of the blue and said he wanted to match a dog with me the very next day. Yes in 24 hours!!! He said the weight of the dog and I told him that I could do it the very next day, but we had to increase the bet.As he had not enough money he pledged a Jeep half ton truck- 4 wheel drive with a snow plough already fitted.We did fight the dogs, and I think it lasted less than 20 minutes, and I used the jeep truck for nearly 10 years to clear my drive way of snow. LOL
    This guy was conditioning his dog quietly all this time , and using all kind of steroids and much more. As another poster, stated, if he had not conditioned his dog he would have gone a little more longer. Is this the reason you want to do the matches with out conditioning the dogs?
    If that is the reason the best way, is to exchange the dogs upon arrival at the pit side.We call this - match under Indian rules. I learned about this rule long time ago from the Chippawa Indians- who are my brothers.
  12. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Many people ask me about European dogmen. Most of them are better class of PEOPLE than the ones you meet in USA or Philippines. In USA and in Philippines there are a few decent pitmen, but they keep doing their things quietly and that is commendable.
    The bravest man in Europe I met was from UK. He is known as Dr.Death. He is still alive unfortunately not free to do what he likes. We made a few matches, in Europe, it took very little time to come to an agreement. You can see how many posts are made to make a match with the Serbians, always talking in circles, never facing the issue
    There is one poster here by the name Serbianman. I think a very good guy. He says he does not match dogs anymore. The matter is over. I have more respect for him than the guys who talk and talk and SAY NOTHING.
    I matched a few dogs with Dr.Death. Who won, who lost is NOT important to me.
    After our final meeting. we shook hands,sat down and had a cup of coffee and he said "Captain, I have no more dogs to match with you" We will have good dogs and some times not so good dogs, but our honor we must always keep.
    I told Dr.Death, if he wants a fair dog, I will be glad to send him one, so that we can engage in this honorable battle.
    Limey kennel is very well known in Europe, and they used to avoid Dr.Death. STP is well known all over the world, but he tried his best to avoid Hardcore. Serbians pitmen keep on talking how great dogs they have, they will not come out of their kitchen. That is a fact.
  13. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    These dogs became too popular in the 80s and every guy put on the mantle of the breeder and were asking extorbitant prices for puppies and dogs, and were getting it. I think now it has reached a normal state.
    There are many guys with dogs and most of them are breeding and breeding, and many pups in the market, but NO BUYERS. The only guys who will buy dogs are the guys who are fighting dogs, and they want fighting dogs, not pedigrees, and nobody is fighting dogs or breeding fighting dogs. If you look closely the market place here, there are some pups advertised, and i can make a small wager that not many pups were sold. Now the same pups advertised for 1000$ for sale is being offered for 300$ as one year dogs, and still no buyers.
    I was recently in Europe and there were many many grown dogs for sale in Balkans for less than 500$. What are they good for? I do not know.
    Recently there was a convention in Serbia, and the police came. People are getting wiser and I believe there will be not many more shows in Belgrade. There are a few good guys left in Croatia.
    South Africa seems to be the peddlers market in the near future, but there are some smart guys in South Africa, so it may not be that easy to flood the market.
    Now I see pups for 300-350$, reasonable price, same as in the 80s, but the only difference is that, in the 80s puppies came out of fighting dogs, and not from paper hounds.
    smart men like Garner and others will always have the lion share of the market. Patrick is trying to get back into the market i hear, and he will find not many are interested to buy because there is no market.
    In my opinion, the prospective buyers should wait. have patience, in the end you will be rewarded
  14. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Most of matters I post is for your consideration, examinations, and you can make your own conclusions. Needless to say, I have very low opinion on the moral character of the dogmen, and their intellectual ability to absorb anything, so my posts are not meant to educate anyone. IF you can dissect and digest these matters , well and good. I will not engage in any useless discussions, except in the case of matching dogs. Now I believe I will be engaging in a useless discussion with Mr.Boliodogs or Pat Patrick and I can wager 50$ with anyone, all these legends are in their own mind, to step into the pit is another matter.
    Pedigrees and how to read them I leave that to better people than me and there are many here.
    Some of you may be into other sports also like chickens and pigeons. both these are birds and one cannot fly long distances and the other can. When a knowledgable person look at the structure of these 2 birds, it will be self evident that why a chicken cannot fly long distance and why a pigeon can. In a similar fashion when you look at dogs closely, with some basic knowledge, you can make an educated guess,why such and such a dog cannot be a good fighting dog, irrespective of the pedigree shown. For this, one has to educate himself, but it is not that difficult as the mysterious aspect of gameness. The peddlers have no knowledge of these matters, so they repeat ad infinitum the same thing , pedigree, blood line and repeats these all over again and again.
    I hope to post some pictures (photos) of earlier dogs, before Patrick and Mayfield, Carver et al. When you look at those photos, SOME of you may see a fighting dog, and most of you will see just a photo of another dog.
    If you ask yourself these 2 questions. If you cannot see a fighting dog then you can discuss the pedigree endlessly.
    1. Am I cut out to be a pitman? 2. Do I have to courage to match dogs ? If you are truthful, you will get the answer NO to both questions and if you act on that you will get out of dogs, and there will be less messages on all online/internet forums and less members.
    My position with reference to pedigrees has not been clearly understood. I am afraid, the fault lies with me, as I am/was not able to make a logical argument regarding this matter. So here I would like to discuss this matter in a rational manner. Nothing vague or philosophical.
    Let me take Gr.Ch.Buck. Most of you are familiar with this dog and his pedigree. To begin with, I would like your opinion on the following.
    What was his color? Whom did he inherit this color from?
    What was his fighting style? from whom did he inherit this from?
    In our system, under Cajun Rules, he was considered to be very very game. from what dog did he inherit this "game" trait.
    I hope this is not complicated. Your opinions please. nothing vague, must be clear. Most of you believe in pedigrees should be able to express your opinion in a rational and clear manner. Please post Bucks pedigree as you know it.

    ADBA always registered the dogs as per the information SUPPLIED BY THE BREEDER. So the original pedigree showed the sire as Goldenboy. This information was supplied to ADBA by pat patrick himself. May be somebody could show the pedigree of Goldenboy?
    When did this change in pedigree happened.?
    Gpldenboy was a 4X winner at that time, and his 5th fight against Butch, he LOST. Buck was born some time ago. When Goldenboy lost, suddenly the sire of Buck became Little Tater . So you can believe whatever pedigree you want, so all the breeding done by the scientific pedigree readers are based on which story. Patrick (or someone representing him) is a member here under the user name bolio dogs.
    How does Buck fight? he turns, he cries, he puts his front paws on the pitwall, he soes everything except to jump the pit but taken to the corner. he will scratch
    That is Buck's style. That is not from Klaus Zeke (fitzwaters Goldie), but from Maloney dogs.
    I have fought a few of the dogs from Buck, and if you have hard fighting, hard charging dog, these dogs will clear the wall. This is the way I see it.
    Just because pat patrick decided to put a new pedigree on Buck, does that become the real pedigree?
    So what is the basis of your analysis based on pedigree worth?
    we are just having a open and rational discussion. I believe pedigree is VERY important. Almost all pedigrees today is fake/ false pedigrees.
    This dog, Godfather, is out of Mr. X dogs, by the the way of Stonecity kennels.. immediately I realized, after talking about his matches,he is a Buck-like dog. Though the next fight was again against Mr. X, I suggested to him that I handle Mr. X dog.We did not have a dog to beat this godfather, but I have some experience in handling against such dogs. If I remember correctly, the opponent x picked up the dog- and thus lost the fight. If the owners knew little about their dogs pedigree and his fighting style, in all honesty, I feel they COULD have won the fight.
    Now you telling me that " pedigree in this case is not important" ????
    Just for our Balkan members, i can discuss about a dog in their region. Some of these dogs are known as Ziko-dogs?
    Or is it Jiko-dogs? These dogs are coming out of a dog called Zero, which we had in Thailand for sometime. This Zero is supposed to be a son of Buster Brown who is a son of Buck.
    Zduwach has posted the pedigree of the correct dog- the dog Zero, the sire of the dog shown in the pedigree. I was involved in the negotiations. Art of Siam traded a very good brood bitch named "Red Lady" for this dog "Zero". This dog Zero was in Thailand for a long time.
    Marasonja kennel had split-up more or less by this time.I was and am friendly with the owners, and I suggested to them for this trade, Zero in Europe and Red Lady in Bangkok.
    When I saw some sons out of Zero, I started questioning the owner-marasonja- about Zero, because all the off springs out of Zero was hard driving dogs.I had my own doubts about the pedigree of Zero. The owner of Zero has a very good and a long relation with me, so he decided to check this out. This dog Zero was born in Germany, and the owner of Buster brown had also a dog called Bullet, a very hard driving dog. I know of this dog Bullet also. The guy who bred the dog for the owner of Buster Browns also lived in germany, named Marcus. The actual father of Zero is Bullet and NOT Buster brown. This was revealed by the owner of Buster Brown and Bullet, though he had no part in this deception as he had some personal problem and he was away. because Buster Brown was a champion, Markus decided to change the actual sire and put the name of Buster Brown for quick sale of the puppies. These kind of deceptions are common in USA and also in Europe. So what is the basis of breeding based on the pedigree.
    Zduwach has mentioned about a match in Balkans. If I am not mistaken, the Komany kennels is from Croatia?
    Pat patrick owned Gr.Ch.Hank for some time. Hank was a turning dog, but a game dog within the context our sports. Hank was bought by Andre Giroux from Patrick and he bred a few litter. Giroux's conception of gameness was different, so this turning style of Hank and his sons were not to Andres liking . I am not sure if the Komany kennels had some of the dogs of Hank out of Andre Giroux's breeding. Andre sold Hank to captain America and dogs out of that breeding was touted by captain America as "double dead game" .
    all these pedigrees means= absolute fabrication.
    I keep my own handwritten pedigree for my own reference.
  15. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    NB: None of the above is my own opinion as I did not witness any of it first hand nor do I know or knew anyone mentioned personally.
  16. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I know Red B. Talk to him every once in a blue moon when I catch him delivering the dog food he now makes these days. Great dog food by the way. Real nice guy. Had many good dogs back in the day. The blood used to be all over the place around here since he lives about 5 miles from me. Don't see much if any of his blood still around now a days around here though. If you do its way back.
  17. promoe

    promoe Premium Member Premium Member

    reading that was almost like watching a Mayfield video lol
    AGK likes this.
  18. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Some of it true. Some of it opinion. Some of it not.

    He was in the Carolinas. He was in and around the dogs he mentioned during that time. And he did drive a hard bargain when it came time to set dates and weights. It was a business and a livelihood.

    He invented coming in a pound or so over, paying the forfeit and winning half the money with the bigger dog. Granted, as I have posted, it has always been about winning. At 50lbs that is not a big an issue. At 33 pounds the 1-2 pounds mean the world. As he stated/admits, it was about the money and the winning.

    Along those times there was a dog named Cotton. He was in attendance when Cotton won #2 by luck. The kid that owned Cotton was a new comer. He seen all the signs of green and tried with all his business skills to match into that dog as it looked like easy pickings.

    Cotton was a solid dog with a solid background. His first win the new/green owner worked him under the watchful eye of a knowledgeable dog man of the time. For #2 he had mastered the art of working dogs. A slat mill, a dog , a 12-pack of Budweiser and two 'knock-you-out' rolled up fat boys. On the peak days it was all that and a Percocet or two. The work lasted til either the dog or the conditioner passed out, whichever came first. Cotton looked like shit. He had nothing to offer all night but heart. When Cotton had done all his body could do the scratch was on the other corner and the other corner stood the line before Cotton would have had to stand up and go, but he couldn't, and did not have to so Cotton won #2. When the man said black dog the winner the Captain seen his mark.

    An hour earlier the new guy readily admitted he fucked up. An hour later after a fat boy or two and a 12 pack for the road it was determined ol' Cotton just was not the dog he thought. 2XW winning Cotton was bought for $300, dog, collar, barrel, chain and axle on the ride home.
    Four months later Cotton was brought out into a man of Jocko fame. The Captain bet heavily on the Jocko bred dog even made side bets. Even called Cotton's new owner and talked shit to up the pot. Cotton in #3 was even better than in #1. Cotton was a champion, in the Carolinas, which was like a bee hive back then.

    Cotton was offered up to the Captain who was taking all comers on six, seven or eight occasions. The Captain always had one two pounds heavier or two pounds lighter. He had his weight at one show but the next weekend the dog was moved up or down in class.

    The Captain had some issues and now that he is RIP there is no need to trash the guy any further than his actions while alive did. He was a business man in the dogs. He used the dogs to make his livelihood. There is nothing wrong with that as I would trade a livelihood in dogs for the 12 hour rotating shift work in a pharmaceutical plant any time, especially if the checks were the same on Fridays.

    When it came to picking pigeons to turn a dollar, be it thru peddling or matching into 'known' opponents, it was 'birds of a feather' with him and the ones he talked about in the above posts.

    His biggest beef with the ones he listed is that they beat him to a 'mark' on a lot of occasions.

    But since he is RIP there is no need to dredge up the unpleasant past. He did travel all over the world and he did do dogs all over the world. When he talked he was on top of the world looking down. Not always the case but it was his perspective.

    promoe likes this.
  19. promoe

    promoe Premium Member Premium Member

    I never met him so I don't have an opinion on him other than I was close to Big Tom around the time of some of his rambles and there weren't a lot folks that were fans.
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Sort of like walking thru hell with gasoline soaked draws. It is sort of hard to admire the scenery.

    A few periods, paragraphs and complete sentences would help the read tremendously. But is historical information. I enjoyed the read.

    A part of that is I am impatient. I hate when I have to back up and decipher, vs. simply read along.

    On Jack's board there was a keep and feed plan, actually all over the web. It is a number of pages. It starts with a capital T for 'The' and several pages later there is a period. It is nearly impossible for me to read because of my lack of patience. Some guy went in a punctuated and paragraphed the piece and turns out I enjoyed the read.

    In the original post I should have paid more intention to 'ramblings'. LOL.

    Good read nonetheless.

    promoe likes this.

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