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Difference Europe, USA - Colby, Garner and the real APBT

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by LatinoLingo, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Hello everybody,

    I am a new member on this forum. I am from Germany. I hope to learn a lot from you and I am pleased that I found this forum. I hope you don’t mind my long text. There are a lot of questions and things I would like to know.

    20 years ago my father brought our first American Pit Bull Terrier "Joe" to our home. I have been growing up with dogs my entire life, but this breed is very special. Since that day I am absolutely enthralled with the American Pit Bull Terrier.

    One month ago I learned about the Colby family. I am more than impressed with Colby’s passion for these dogs. Words cannot describe the respect and the admiration I have for that family. My biggest dream is to buy a Colby Pitbull, of course. I have written Pete Colby an email already, but I am not sure he will write me back. I read that Pete & John Colby don’t share the same passion as Louis B. Colby had. Does anybody know this is true? Probably Pete receives 100 emails per day – so, patience is advice. Maybe I won’t get any answer... If he will write me anyway, I be very, very happy. Surely, there is just a little chance to get a Pit Bull from the Colby Family. I read that he sells pups only to family and friends. But I`ll keep on trying ;) Like I said, it would be one of my biggest dreams!

    Another thing: It makes me really sad to see what happened to the APBT in recent years. All the great breeders, all the great names have died or stop breeding dogs. There is no replacement. The breed goes down the drain. All these “XXL Bully Super Pit Bull” garbage is just terrible for the APBT. As Joseph L. Colby wrote in his book almost 100 years ago, the American Pit Bull Terrier is the greatest breed in the world. One thing should be clear: The “gameness” of an American Pit Bull Terrier makes the big difference between this breed and all other breeds. All the work The Colby family invested in the breeding of these dogs and all the work they are (hopefully) still investing is unbelievably valuable.

    In my opinion the theme Pit Bull Bloodlines is difficult in general. Most notably in Europe… In the majority of European countries breeding of the APBT was banned. And there are still some states which have a ban (Switzerland, Denmark, most States of Germany, Sweden…) That’s what the quality of Bloodlines suffered. The interest in these dogs went to zero, at least in Germany. There are about 10 “breeders” in Germany which claim to have a pedigree now. In my opinion their dogs have no pedigree at all. In countries like Romania, Albania and Serbia dog fights are almost normal. With not much effort you can buy a “champion”. Some breeders even write on their homepage that they have a “grand champion”. These people would go to jail immediately in Germany. It's quite a bizarre situation here in Europe. I would love to own a real Pit Bull, but this is extremely difficult. Especially in Germany.

    In the last few weeks I asked myself over and over again: What is a “real” American Pit Bull Terrier? The answer for all the other breeds is pretty easy. They have to look like the breed has to. But I believe it is not enough to call your dog an APBT just because he looks like an APBT. I found two interesting articles in relation to this topic.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    This one is from 1981:

    The “game” bred American Pit Bull Terrier is by far the greatest family and defense dog available.

    The type of dog we look for must have the following qualities. First he must have the intelligence to learn and perform obedience work; second he must have a high pain tolerance to withstand rough play from small children; third he must be physically sound with no worry of hip dysplasia or other crippling faults; fourth he must be “game” as this will allow him to react with courage and not fear to the full attack of an aggressive armed man, without quitting, no matter what abuse he is taking.

    These “game” bred APBTs can be encouraged to tolerate and avoid fights with other dogs. A good example of a “game” bred dog who is good with other dogs is my newest dog … the “game” dog has the highest pain tolerance of any animal in the world. When fighting they can withstand tremendous amounts of pain without even a whimper. It is this quality that makes him the finest dog in the world with small children. While the tug on the ear or a poke in the eye done by a child will cause great pain to a breed of dog not meant to take pain, a “game” bred APBT will take it in stride simply because it does not hurt him as much.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    This one is from 2012:

    The most confused terms in relation to Pit Bulls is probably "gameness." Most people misconstrue the term as representing the dog's courage, fight ability, or endurance in the pit, but it is the never quit attitude and fight-to-the-death personality. ("Fight-to-the-death" does not necessarily mean in the pit, either.) Game bred dogs were not necessarily the best in the pit, but they were the ones with the most fight in them. Gameness makes a small dog able to take on a much larger dog and ultimately win. Gameness is the willingness to continue and persevere in any activity, whether fighting, hunting, herding, pulling a car, or defending its owner, while being put through great stress and/or intense pain until he has won or until death. Gameness has nothing to do with ability or bravery; it has to do with heart. Generally, the trait of gameness is not the aggression but the will to fight and the determination to win under stress and pain. Gameness can describe the willingness and determination to protect his owner when in danger of another person or dog.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    So, the “gameness” makes the difference between a American Pit Bull Terrier and all other breeds, and makes this creature unique. That’s the reason why Joseph L. Colby's book “American Pit Bull Terrier – History of Fighting Dog Series”, written in 1936, makes me worry a lot. In his book he said:

    „Most of the present day dogs are bred too loosely, and if a man does have a proven game dog or bitch, he doesn't retrain the blood for many generations, because he breeds out, therefore losing the gameness."

    Joseph wrote this statement in a time when almost every pit bull was a “game dog”. If he was worried about the gameness in this time, what he would say about the gameness of dogs today? But another question hammered much heavier over and over again in my head: Is the only way to test the gameness putting dogs into a pit? That’s a hard thought.

    But if the “real” American Pit Bull Terrier would die out, a unique creature would be gone. That’s a hard thought, too. If you hear the words courage, endurance, power and absolute willingness, then does anything bad come to mind? Surely not. Who would not love to be brave? And who would not love to be psychologically and physically enduring enough to accomplish a goal – no matter who or what should get in your way? Do you know what I think about if I hear these words? I think about a dauntless soldier who is willing to fight or even to die for his country. And to stay with the association of a soldier: As well as a soldier can be used to create war or keep peace, the American Pit Bull Terrier can be used for one thing or the other.

    Gameness means so much more to me than “only” fighting to the death. A “game breed dog” is neither timid nor nervous. He doesn’t act panicked or frightened. This mindset makes the life of its owner much, much more easier. Everyone who has had a nervous or fearful dog knows what I mean. These are terrible character traits and they do make the life of a dog owner unnecessarily complicated.

    The extinction of the real American Pit Bull Terrier would be even more devastating for firemen, police officers and all other people who depend on the help of dogs. Like I said, a Pit Bull accomplishes his mission or dies trying. It`s doesn’t matter how long it takes and what danger or pain he has to go through. He is absolutely fearless and he has only one thing in his mind: the mission. Which police officer/firemen men or any rescue force would give that up? Nobody I guess.

    Do you know any other original APBT except the Colby Bloodline? What is your opinion about gameness? Do you know any other great breeders? Maybe Tom Garner? Well, I know. It is a huge text. I hope it was not boring or irritating to you. You must know, there are not anybody in Germany who has a real knowledge about Pit Bulls, as well in Switzerland or Austria. Therefore I do have many, many questions in my head. Maybe some questions sounds stupid to you. I hope you will answer them anyway.

    Greetings

    LatinoLingo
     
  2. Hello LatinoLingo!I'm from Germany too and i know the problems in our Country .I'm very interested in all kind of Bull Breeds.My female Pitbull died last year in the age of 16...very good Girl.In Germany good Pitbulls are very hard to find and so i'm looking for some good kennels in Europe .Maybe we can come in contact and look together for some good dogs.Greetings Maithai
     
  3. WNK

    WNK Premium Member Premium Member

    You wont find good dogs in Germany.
     
  4. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Welcome to gamedog, I am personal friends with the Colby family. Pm me I will put you in touch with either ,Pete or John. Shipping might be a problem. So check that out, we can go from there.
     
  5. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

  6. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    51 lbs c.w. good old honest Bulldog. Very deep game, rock steady temperament, good conformation. P.a
    To whom it may concern, Major was was stolen from me at about 16 months old , gone for about 2 years, He wasn't campaigned or open to the world. He won his Ch. own a local level with the low lifes that bought him. He won on pure heart, even going uphill in wieght. True Bulldog.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    today's picture of Major my boy !
    This is a picture of Major a few days later after I got him back. Over the years certain folks think ' The Dex ' has to make up story's about an honest bulldog that comes from a family of honest winning Colby hounds. Scared up ,head to toe. Yes I took him to the vet, got him checked out, chipped, and documentation.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. littlerascals

    littlerascals Premium Member Premium Member

    why would yu import a colby dog ? pretty paper don't make the dog.
    there is better working stuff here in europe, you could get 3 or 4 pups for the price on one colby puppy+shipping cost!
     
  9. QUOTE="LatinoLingo, post: 749219, member: 36284"]Hello everybody,

    I am a new member on this forum. I am from Germany. I hope to learn a lot from you and I am pleased that I found this forum. I hope you don’t mind my long text. There are a lot of questions and things I would like to know.

    20 years ago my father brought our first American Pit Bull Terrier "Joe" to our home. I have been growing up with dogs my entire life, but this breed is very special. Since that day I am absolutely enthralled with the American Pit Bull Terrier.

    One month ago I learned about the Colby family. I am more than impressed with Colby’s passion for these dogs. Words cannot describe the respect and the admiration I have for that family. My biggest dream is to buy a Colby Pitbull, of course. I have written Pete Colby an email already, but I am not sure he will write me back. I read that Pete & John Colby don’t share the same passion as Louis B. Colby had. Does anybody know this is true? Probably Pete receives 100 emails per day – so, patience is advice. Maybe I won’t get any answer... If he will write me anyway, I be very, very happy. Surely, there is just a little chance to get a Pit Bull from the Colby Family. I read that he sells pups only to family and friends. But I`ll keep on trying ;) Like I said, it would be one of my biggest dreams!

    Another thing: It makes me really sad to see what happened to the APBT in recent years. All the great breeders, all the great names have died or stop breeding dogs. There is no replacement. The breed goes down the drain. All these “XXL Bully Super Pit Bull” garbage is just terrible for the APBT. As Joseph L. Colby wrote in his book almost 100 years ago, the American Pit Bull Terrier is the greatest breed in the world. One thing should be clear: The “gameness” of an American Pit Bull Terrier makes the big difference between this breed and all other breeds. All the work The Colby family invested in the breeding of these dogs and all the work they are (hopefully) still investing is unbelievably valuable.

    In my opinion the theme Pit Bull Bloodlines is difficult in general. Most notably in Europe… In the majority of European countries breeding of the APBT was banned. And there are still some states which have a ban (Switzerland, Denmark, most States of Germany, Sweden…) That’s what the quality of Bloodlines suffered. The interest in these dogs went to zero, at least in Germany. There are about 10 “breeders” in Germany which claim to have a pedigree now. In my opinion their dogs have no pedigree at all. In countries like Romania, Albania and Serbia dog fights are almost normal. With not much effort you can buy a “champion”. Some breeders even write on their homepage that they have a “grand champion”. These people would go to jail immediately in Germany. It's quite a bizarre situation here in Europe. I would love to own a real Pit Bull, but this is extremely difficult. Especially in Germany.

    In the last few weeks I asked myself over and over again: What is a “real” American Pit Bull Terrier? The answer for all the other breeds is pretty easy. They have to look like the breed has to. But I believe it is not enough to call your dog an APBT just because he looks like an APBT. I found two interesting articles in relation to this topic.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    This one is from 1981:

    The “game” bred American Pit Bull Terrier is by far the greatest family and defense dog available.

    The type of dog we look for must have the following qualities. First he must have the intelligence to learn and perform obedience work; second he must have a high pain tolerance to withstand rough play from small children; third he must be physically sound with no worry of hip dysplasia or other crippling faults; fourth he must be “game” as this will allow him to react with courage and not fear to the full attack of an aggressive armed man, without quitting, no matter what abuse he is taking.

    These “game” bred APBTs can be encouraged to tolerate and avoid fights with other dogs. A good example of a “game” bred dog who is good with other dogs is my newest dog … the “game” dog has the highest pain tolerance of any animal in the world. When fighting they can withstand tremendous amounts of pain without even a whimper. It is this quality that makes him the finest dog in the world with small children. While the tug on the ear or a poke in the eye done by a child will cause great pain to a breed of dog not meant to take pain, a “game” bred APBT will take it in stride simply because it does not hurt him as much.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    This one is from 2012:

    The most confused terms in relation to Pit Bulls is probably "gameness." Most people misconstrue the term as representing the dog's courage, fight ability, or endurance in the pit, but it is the never quit attitude and fight-to-the-death personality. ("Fight-to-the-death" does not necessarily mean in the pit, either.) Game bred dogs were not necessarily the best in the pit, but they were the ones with the most fight in them. Gameness makes a small dog able to take on a much larger dog and ultimately win. Gameness is the willingness to continue and persevere in any activity, whether fighting, hunting, herding, pulling a car, or defending its owner, while being put through great stress and/or intense pain until he has won or until death. Gameness has nothing to do with ability or bravery; it has to do with heart. Generally, the trait of gameness is not the aggression but the will to fight and the determination to win under stress and pain. Gameness can describe the willingness and determination to protect his owner when in danger of another person or dog.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    So, the “gameness” makes the difference between a American Pit Bull Terrier and all other breeds, and makes this creature unique. That’s the reason why Joseph L. Colby's book “American Pit Bull Terrier – History of Fighting Dog Series”, written in 1936, makes me worry a lot. In his book he said:

    „Most of the present day dogs are bred too loosely, and if a man does have a proven game dog or bitch, he doesn't retrain the blood for many generations, because he breeds out, therefore losing the gameness."

    Joseph wrote this statement in a time when almost every pit bull was a “game dog”. If he was worried about the gameness in this time, what he would say about the gameness of dogs today? But another question hammered much heavier over and over again in my head: Is the only way to test the gameness putting dogs into a pit? That’s a hard thought.

    But if the “real” American Pit Bull Terrier would die out, a unique creature would be gone. That’s a hard thought, too. If you hear the words courage, endurance, power and absolute willingness, then does anything bad come to mind? Surely not. Who would not love to be brave? And who would not love to be psychologically and physically enduring enough to accomplish a goal – no matter who or what should get in your way? Do you know what I think about if I hear these words? I think about a dauntless soldier who is willing to fight or even to die for his country. And to stay with the association of a soldier: As well as a soldier can be used to create war or keep peace, the American Pit Bull Terrier can be used for one thing or the other.

    Gameness means so much more to me than “only” fighting to the death. A “game breed dog” is neither timid nor nervous. He doesn’t act panicked or frightened. This mindset makes the life of its owner much, much more easier. Everyone who has had a nervous or fearful dog knows what I mean. These are terrible character traits and they do make the life of a dog owner unnecessarily complicated.

    The extinction of the real American Pit Bull Terrier would be even more devastating for firemen, police officers and all other people who depend on the help of dogs. Like I said, a Pit Bull accomplishes his mission or dies trying. It`s doesn’t matter how long it takes and what danger or pain he has to go through. He is absolutely fearless and he has only one thing in his mind: the mission. Which police officer/firemen men or any rescue force would give that up? Nobody I guess.

    Do you know any other original APBT except the Colby Bloodline? What is your opinion about gameness? Do you know any other great breeders? Maybe Tom Garner? Well, I know. It is a huge text. I hope it was not boring or irritating to you. You must know, there are not anybody in Germany who has a real knowledge about Pit Bulls, as well in Switzerland or Austria. Therefore I do have many, many questions in my head. Maybe some questions sounds stupid to you. I hope you will answer them anyway.

    Greetings

    LatinoLingo[/QUOTE]
    I responding if you are interested in Colby pup i have 2 litters coming I am a I
     
  10. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    Is there not good dogs in Holland? I thought a lot of good game bred American Pit Bulldogs were imported from the U.S. to Holland in the 1980's it would be a lot closer and cheaper to get one from there and probably less hassle as well.
     
  11. SDOD

    SDOD Pup

    Check out nastyman he is very close
     
    italianpit likes this.
  12. WNK

    WNK Premium Member Premium Member

    Holland dogs would make nice pet dogs for sure!
     
  13. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    I thought Don Mayfield and others shipped lots of decent line bred dogs there in the 1980's? I could be wrong just what I have read.
     
  14. WNK

    WNK Premium Member Premium Member

    They actually did... But quality got lost, now there is quantity and alot of beauty shows.
    Maybe just the quality of owners suck and good dogs are hidden at dumbasses.
     
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  15. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    Pity those quality Mayfield dogs didn't reach over here.....
     
  16. vw mike

    vw mike Pup

    Germany has/had enough good dogs, same goes for holland, but most wont deal with people who dont know whats out there.
     
    KBK likes this.
  17. italianpit

    italianpit Big Dog

    You can find something good in Austria from zwettler, and something very good in poland, Croazia, Czech republic, ukraina and Romania...il You are Not afraid to take a car and go You ave lot of choice..
     
  18. SDOD

    SDOD Pup

    dont think zwettler breed apbt any longer
     
  19. SDOD

    SDOD Pup

    out of curiosity who in poland do you consider having very good dogs ?
     
  20. italianpit

    italianpit Big Dog

    I'm sorry Finland Not poland..My mistaKe..
    Dunkel has yet good dogs..And there are many zwettler here in europe.
     
    TimoLeka likes this.

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