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Ed Crenshaw's Keep

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by corvettedex, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    J. Crenshaw Keep

    To begin with you must have a healthy dog. This is a 12 week keep. The first 4 weeks I
    walk the dog 10 miles per day. I walk him everyday for these 4 weeks and feed one
    hour after the walk. If the show is to begin at 8:00 p.m. then I walk my dog from 5
    p.m. to 8 p.m. This 4 weeks is to pre condition the dog and get him close to weight. It is
    very important to get all gut or internal fat out of him. If you can't get the fat out from
    his intestines, heart, lungs, and liver, you can't put him in shape.
    For the first 4 weeks I feed the following:

    1. 1 cup pro plan (chicken and rice) adult formula
    2. 1 cup Kellogg's All-Bran
    3. 1 or 2 cloves chopped garlic
    4. 1 tablespoon chopped spinach
    5. 2 cups chicken broth
    6. 1 cup cooked chicken

    Place items1-2-3-4 in feed pan. Heat items 5-6 (pour over 1-2-3-4)
    To make the chicken and broth I place 15 chicken thighs in a 3 gallon stock pot and fill
    with water. Cook until tender and place in refrigerator when cool.

    WEEK 5:

    The walk is still 10 miles (5p.m. to 8p.m). Immediately after the walk, while he is still
    warmed up, he gets 5 minutes on the treadmill. When he comes off mill, walk him 30
    minutes to cool down. Then rub him down good and put him in his quarters. Prepare
    his food an feed him one hour after he comes off the mill. (If your dog is losing
    excessive weight, feed more dog food). If he is dehydrated, increase liquid. However, if
    he is losing too much weight it is possible you are going at the wrong weight. He should
    not have water between mill and feed time. But when you feed him, place at least 1/2
    gallon clean water where he has access to it. The water should be changed and the
    container cleaned daily. I read once where someone said the green stuff in water won't
    hurt the dog.....But you give him one bucket of clean and one green with algae and see
    which one he drinks from!!!!!!!!!

    Continue each day of week 5 the same. With only 5 minutes mill work, it shouldn't be
    necessary to rest him this week. But this keep is only a guide. You have to use common
    sense. If the dog is tired or doesn't feel good,"Rest Him".

    WEEK 6:

    Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
    10 minutes on mill
    Rub down
    Everything stays the same (If the dog loses weight, add additional dog food). Everything
    else stays the same. Be sure to replace water.

    WEEK 7:

    Walk 10 miles (5pm-8pm)
    20 minutes on mill
    Rub Down
    Everything else same except feed:
    With 10 miles walk, 20 minutes on mill, and 30 minutes to cool down, the dog should
    be drying out some. At this time I leave all ingredients the same except liquid and
    chicken. I put 3 whole chicken thighs (including skin) with bone removed. Broth: add 1
    ounce per pound body weight (40 pound dogs gets 40 ounces broth daily). Wait one
    hour after mill and feed. Put water so he can drink.

    WEEK 8:

    Walk Same 10 miles (5pm-8pm)
    Mill 15 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 15 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes to cool down, Rub down, feed on hour after mill, and replace water.

    WEEK 9:

    Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
    Mill 20 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 20 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed on hour after mill
    REPLACE WATER

    WEEK 10:

    Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
    Mill 30 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 30 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed on hour after mill
    WATER

    WEEK 11:

    SUNDAY
    Begin 10 mile walk at 4 p.m. Finish walk at 7p.m
    Mill 30 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 30 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 30 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed at 10:30. WATER!!!!!!!!!

    MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY=SAME AS SUNDAY

    FRIDAY
    Walk 5 miles (ending at 8p.m)
    Mill 20 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes

    Mill 20 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed one hour after mill (10:10), WATER!!!!!!!!!!

    SATURDAY:

    Walk 5 miles
    Mill 15 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 15 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed one hour after mill (10:10p.m) WATER!!!!!!!

    WEEK 12:

    SUNDAY:
    Walk 5 miles ending at 8p.m
    Mill 10 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes
    Mill 10 minutes
    Rub down
    Feed one hour after mill (9:50p.m) WATER!!!!!!!

    MONDAY:

    Walk one hour ending at 8p.m
    Mill 10 minutes
    Walk 30 minutes Rub down
    Feed one hour after mill (9:10pm.) WATER!!!!!

    TUESDAY:

    Today I put the dog in a kennel in my bedroom, keep the room cool and quiet. I take
    him out early in the morning for a good walk (about 30-45 minutes). Put him up until
    noon and take him for another 30-45 minute walk.
    4-pm--walk for one hour
    5pm-- feed, put back in kennel
    9pm-- walk just long enough for him to empty or urinate. Put in kennel until morning. I
    offer him water after each walk before he goes back in the kennel.

    WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY==SAME AS TUESDAY

    FRIDAY:

    I made sure to arrive at the area of the show at least 30 (THIRTY) hours before
    showtime so I could feed the last meal there and to insure my dog got plenty of rest.
    8pm. 2cc Dex 2mg-ml. Put under skin, NOT muscle.

    SATURDAY:

    6am. 5cc Dex under skin

    ALL THIS IS A GUIDE IF THE SHOW IS AT 8PM SATURDAY

    I never feed but once daily. This will keep your dog regular and insure he is empty at
    show time. Next to getting the gut fat out of him, this is the most important: making
    sure he is empty at show time. He will get hot an week if he has anything in his
    stomach.

    To make weight, I use broth without any solids. I strain chicken broth through cheese
    cloth and save one pint. You can give this to him up to 3 hours before show time and it
    will not do any harm.

    And last, this is only a guide. You have to use common sense to apply with any success.
    Example:

    If the dog loses weight, feed more
    If he gains weight, work more or feed less
    if he is tired, rest him
    if you are lazy and don't work your dog, he won't be in shape
    if he is dry, add more broth
    if his is too wet, decrease broth

    Don't push him too fast. Work according to schedule in pre-keep to prepare him for
    work.

    Not many people have the ability to condition

    I once read an article that Earl Tudor wrote which said he doubted it there was 5 men
    in the world that knew how to find a dog's weight, get the gut fat out, and knew how to
    condition him after he got the fat out.

    I WILL GO ONE STEP FURTHER AND SAY:
    If there are 3 today that know this and are not too LAZY to put him in shape, I do not
    know them.

    GOOD LUCK
    IT'S HARD WORK AND TAKES A LOT OF TIME.
     
  2. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    I am a firm believer in hand walking. How many people are truly capable of doing this keep?
     
    c_note likes this.
  3. 80BOWTIE

    80BOWTIE Big Dog

    I was thinking exactly what he said at the end. Lot of hard work and time. Dedicated dogman
     
    corvettedex likes this.
  4. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    A Real keep separates the Men from the Boys !
     
    oldguy and david63 like this.
  5. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    To state If there are 3 men that are capable of doing this keep, He doesn't know them. Also I have read on different topics here on gamedog that folks believe that back in the old days the old timers more than likely matched OTC ?. That would be like a boxer getting off the couch and going to the match at a set waiting a set date and expecting to perform that's a joke....
     
  6. depends on the dogs , the area u live in , the weather u live in
     
  7. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Absolutely, and well said.
     
    david63 and oldguy like this.
  8. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I remember walking Nuttal's Black Max 10 miles a day, took me ages, pissing with rain, wind blowing straight into us, soaked through and freezing, and I'm saying "come on Max son! Only another 5 miles to go!" The dog was frozen to the bone, hated the rain and probably hated me more.. Somebody told me a dog needs 10 miles a day road work to be conditioned, so fuck the wind, hail and snow blizzards.. Let's go son!

    Another time I'm walking one 10 miles a day, still wouldn't drop weight the way I wanted, so I changed it to 2x 3 mile walks and 2x 30 minutes on the bike, running at 1/2 - 3/4 gait jogging pace, the weight just fell off, while both dog and owner enjoyed the experience and left wanting more.. I enjoy walking and like to see a dog enjoy the walk with me, IMO it's the psychology of the thing which benefits the dog most, like sniffing the smells and pissing to mark his/her spots, all primal stuff that's good for mental wellbeing.. To me that's what dog walking is now.. 5 miles of peace, quiet, happiness and mental wellbeing:-B
     
    stedz, david63, c_note and 1 other person like this.
  9. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    I cut my teeth hand walking these Bulldogs. Of course living in South Carolina have a huge Advantage with weather. I can tell you one thing's for certain , when I can take my Bulldog on a 10-mile am walk, and a 10-mile p.m. walk we have bonded together we know exactly what we're doing .To keep things exciting i use a 10 foot lead & a harness. I also take different routes. I got in the Best shape of my life with my Bulldogs. Also did chain dragging , run wind sprints, ect. I added push-ups, pull-ups , and i lossed a 100 lbs in about a year. Ive had some Bulldogs that were stubborn, I've had them lay down on me ect. I need to get back to it.
     
    david63 likes this.
  10. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    Working our dogs is just as much an opportunity to keep ourselves tuned up, not to mention the bond we build. There was a time I was competing in trail marathons; had a dog which did the weekly, lonely 30mile/5 hour training runs alongside me. Exercise is exercise; countless ways to go about it. But I think interval training at various low-high-all out speeds is a much more effective use of time. Some examples I've used and continue to. Bicycle with dog tow leash. Allowing dog to pull while hand walking (flat collar or harness). Continuous ball work in a secure area (I use a chuck-it xl launcher). Frisbee. 10’ flirt pole. Water retrieves. Guess it all depends on our individual resources, imagination - and of course the genetic drives and abilities of the individual dog in front of us.
     
    corvettedex and david63 like this.
  11. isn't garlic mildly toxic?
     
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It is a good guide.

    I would not work a dog based on what someone else did with their dog. Every keep has to be tailored to the individual dog. There is no way anyone can say how much a dog needs 4 weeks in on any given day, or any other day for that matter.

    Dogs start from different points and progress at differing points, and even regress as well. This has to be accounted for and the work is then decided by the dog on that day.

    Most written keeps give instructions with times which progressively increase over time but what if the dog is far advanced for that keep and he is not being brought to no where his actual potential? or the dog who is not ready for XXX minutes on days 42? He gets over worked and ends up flat.

    It is all about getting it right today. Yesterday, today and tomorrow can be the same, but they are most often different, some slightly and some major. Reading the dog makes sense of all that.

    S
     
  13. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    When I asked a good friend with tons of wins under his belt about his keep he told me "hell pick on you like and use it. Fix your mistakes next go around." Another far from novice(old mag owner) looked me dead in my eyes and told me "only way to really learn to condition is to condition"..


    Neither of these HIGHLY KNOWN AND RESPECTED men would put me onto a keep or even give me their guidelines. Both just said pick one you like and run it.

    As far as this particular one couple ppl I've talked to who I trust said it's pure bullshit. Buddy of mine swore this one was to get idiots to over work their dogs and fail. I wouldnt ever use it. That's just me. I have more than a few proven keeps and they dont look anything like this one. Those are the ones I prefer.

    Wasnt it Danny burton(a master conditioner) who used mainly a jenny... mill makers didnt have 10 hours prekeep work either... or mayfield's.... plenty of ways to skin a cat for sure but this isnt the route I would take.
     
  14. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed.

    It is many ways to skin a cat. There are a ton of ways to get there and I think just about all of them will work.

    My issue with writing one down and then then next guy follows it word for word, his dog ends up like crap, and then that keep sucks. While all the way the dog was saying this is too much or this is not enough. And the conditioner just keeps reading the keep and following it like it is the holy gospel. Dogs simply do not prosper.

    I enjoy reading the keeps and I think for the most part written keeps are a good guide but I sort of get a disconnect when they attach times for three-four-five weeks from the beginning.

    The developments in nutritional science for the dogs have jumped leaps and bounds since a lot of the written keeps were scribed into stone. The dog has not been changed by evolution so much that they will not work, but lots of things have changed for the better.

    In the magazine Mushing Dog there is an article called "Rendering the sense of fats". It is a good read. Basically it says the Eskimos fed whale blubber to their dogs a thousand years ago. Then at some point in recent past man invented dry dog food for his convenience. Even made sport versions that were designed for performance mostly by what was proven to work in humans. Then when the scientists/researchers got around to testing the dog's needs for optimal performance it was pretty much the same way the dogs were fed by the eskimos a thousand years ago. High fat, medium protein, pretty much zero carbs.

    Most of the written keeps are based on the times when human needs were placed upon the dogs.

    But with that said, they worked back then, and they will work today, when coupled with common sense and a good dog. A lot of emphasis on the good dog. LOL

    And the kicker is that if a guy is winning feeding his dogs corn flakes and cabbage, you or me, will be hard pressed to convince him there is a better way, or that he needs to change his ways.

    Tons of different ways.

    S
     
  15. benthere

    benthere CH Dog Staff Member

    Truth is with this keep after 12 weeks, 3 months! you’ll be left with a worn out stale dog who’ll likely run the other way when he sees you coming for another one of his ‘walks’.
    The final insult is giving the animal dex the day before and day of the show so he can piss out what’s left of his hydration leaving him a zoned out, dried out shell of what he should be.
    After a short time the exhausted, dehydrated animal would likely fall to the bottom too weak to continue, in other words you lose.
    Then the losing handlers in all their wisdom will be poking holes in their dog trying to save him with ringers.
    The first rule of conditioning is you got to be smarter than the dog, most so called dog men fail this first rule.

    Maybe the reason Crenshaw gave out his keep was in the hopes his competition would use it.
     
  16. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    Raw garlic is a natural anti inflammatory. Yet the raw/natural feeders I know say avoid raw garlic for the dogs..too hard on the stomach lining. Fully cooked, maybe ok. My dogs have had it in leftover soup, stew, pasta etc..
     
    Casperworldpeace and david63 like this.
  17. 80BOWTIE

    80BOWTIE Big Dog

    Ok. What is dex for?
     
  18. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Good reading. most of what you will notice when working dogs is that they all respond and react differently to the same work.
    Holocaust that was actually a good post and I agree with a lot of that.given the time in the competition level in the way things were going back then I would say that more than likely people would be trying to do like you said in overworked somebody else's dog for them so that they could come in and show them a proper work dog in a low-class manner..
    Do any of you people use YouTube or anything other than you know entertainment purposes.
    I've came across quite a few channels that are very informative some people have some really hard opinions some I agree with some I don't but yet there is a world of information coming from a few different channels whether you like the individual or not there is still something to be gained by listening.
    also since we're on the subject of keeps one of my favorite reads was the meal makers keep buy mr. Lamb and also there are some videos old VHs tapes that have been put on YouTube that you can watch you look in the right places that is one of my favorite authors of a keep.
    not only does he explain things to you he also has a dog on the mill to kind of show you what he's talking about during a work session.

    hope everybody is doing well then some nasty weather the last couple weeks but I have no doubt that spring is near and soon we will all be busy and enjoying the fresh air.
    If any of my wording in this super long messages kind of screwed up don't mind this voice recorder phone typing actually picks up stutters and everything else that I might slow down on good stuff everything but the coughing.ha ha
     
  19. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Mill makers keep. Mr. Lemme**
     
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I left home once with a handful of money and high hopes. I came home with neither.

    I started at A and went to Z, listing everything that was at fault.

    The guy that turned me onto the dogs pretty much said, "Hey, dumb
     

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