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Gr ch mayday look rare?

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by ZeboCloneDNA, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Ide say thats defo the reason man..

    Understandeble from the dogs point of veiw if you ask me.

    dogs no one one of thems gone.

    ........ .......... ......... .......... ..........

    They seen the hole getting dug man..
    And they heard.....
    "quit,,or go near any kids,, and thats were youll be fucking going".
     
  2. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    2 year old thread but I had a son off GDCH Haunch who was a son of Mayday. Huanch, IMO, looked a lot like Mayday and Gary said you had to be careful w/ Haunch around people. The son I had of Haunch was a destroyer and great with my son but did not take kindly to people coming into the house unless I introduced them. He was fine at that point. 75lbs and. He was a destroyer and I had to keep him separated from his momma, another big dog out of The Filipines who was the smartest dog I ever owned. Shago line. She was an amazing dog, even did Shutchund work.

    It was my understanding...and this was nearly 25 years ago, that Victor bred Mayday to everything and the blood became watered down. I would most certainly jump at the blood if I had he chance today.
     
  3. Strongdog

    Strongdog Big Dog

    I don't know why people act like mayday dogs look different than the rbj dogs that chavis had before mayday. 15390652_224202911358369_986466994594754332_n.jpg 9eb3268ec8ecf2524ce39cd71942c66e.jpg 34520.jpeg Chavis Jocko, Chavis Roho and Lfk Barracuda.
     
  4. tomjones2

    tomjones2 Big Dog

    Any pics of the beast you speak of?
     
  5. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    I have to look and then have to post up using my phone...so no. My son of Haunch did not look a lot like Mayday, he was actually taller and a bit lankier. Never really tested him but did have a couple of accidents and he had lots of mouth. There are tons of pics of Haunch all over the net. IMO, he looked a lot like Mayday. I would say that Mayday and Haunch were definitely stockier than many other high performing dogs. Lankier dogs had an advantage in terms of leverage, but Mayday and Haunch were absolutely huge compared to most other CH/GdChamp dogs.
     
  6. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    I also see similarities between Mayday and the Hollingsworth line upon which he was based. I think Barracuda looked similar in build to Mayday but he Chavez dogs were rangier. I think the only deviation Mayday/Haunch had is they tended to be built a little thicker than most other real bulldogs. It is a situation where you have a trade off: Mayday and Haunch were more powerfully built while taller lankier dogs had an advantage in reach and leverage. As dogs get bigger the reach and leverage advantage become less important than with say dogs that match at less than 50 lbs.

    Having seen Haunch up close and personal, he was an absolute monster.
     
  7. ^^^
     
  8. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I was with you all the way to the last statement.

    A 70lb dog can be big dogged by another 70lb dog if the build makes that possible.

    Although I would never advocate giving weight, a 70 pound dog pushing a pound or so does not have the same impact as a 40lb dog doing the same.

    One scenario is proportionate all the way up and the other can fade a bit as the dogs get bigger and bigger.

    S



     
  9. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog


    If you are saying a pound on a 40 lb dog makes a bigger difference than a pound on a 70 lb dog then we are absolutely on the same page. My expertise is with humans, but he same applies to dogs, I am sure. For example, last year my son came into wrestling season at 172 lbs last year. He started there, but cut down to 163 where he was physically stronger than most kids. At 172 he was not stronger than the other kids. Now this year he shot up to 192 and wrestling season is 3.5 months away, football season is starting now. We have decided to grow into the 195 lb division (he is gaining 1-2 lbs a month) instead of cutting down to 182.

    These size differences change everything, and I am sure it applies equally to humans and dogs. Take Jordan Buroughs for example. Wrestling at 163 lbs he is able to shoot from 2-3 feet out and execute perfect double legs. You never see that at heavyweight because the physics change when a 200 lb plus man is sprawled on top of you. In MMA we see that Jon Jones is simply much bigger than other 205 pounders, and will likely fight around 230 or so at heavyweight, but the size advantages have a diminishing return with the big guys. Then again there is Brock Lesner, LOL.

    I am most certainly not an expert on dog combat, but I am sure fighting strategies are very different between 70 and 40 lb dogs.
     
  10. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Another thing...height and reach are very important. For example, a human with long arms cannot bench press as much as a human with shorter arms and a thicker chest. Assuming they are the same weight, the longer arms become an advantage when striking, creating distancing advantages for the longer armed person.

    You see the same thing with dogs. I think, for example, the Hammonds dogs tended to be lankier than other dogs which gave them an advantage in the box against more stoughtly built animals. Again we see a similar phenomena with Jon Jones, but he will lose this advantage at heavyweight.
     
    david63 likes this.
  11. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    We are pretty much saying the same thing but getting there we may differ.

    The part that does not factor for the dogs is the rehydration of the human combatants. People do not compete at their weigh in weight but a dog must. That is a million miles from one another. My favorite example in this debate is GSP vs. BJ Penn. BJ had to eat a couiple cheeseburgers to get to 170. If they fought at 170 he demolishes a weakened state of GSP. But GSP got as much as 28 hours to rehydrate and at the time he may have been the best weight cut in the game. He shows up Saturday night at 188-189 and simply smothered and big dogged Penn.

    A long rangier dog that weighs 70lbs has an advantage over the stockier built 70lb counterpart ( all other things equal, it is a pretty big advantage)

    If the dogs weigh 40lbs the same rules apply.

    Giving weight is similar to the Penn/GSP affair. It is one thing to fight a bigger guy but another thing to carry his weight while trying to do so. The "bigger" 70lb or 40lb dog forces the other to carry him.

    The second part that plays in the dogs is there are not set times nor distances like human sports. A round is only 3 minutes or five minutes, or a race is only X amount of meters or X amount of kilometers. Even wrestlers only have to prepare for X amount of minutes. The only thing that factors in favor of the humans it may be multiple matches in one day or multiple events in meet. Dogs not so much.

    Jones by making weight and then rehydrating is big dogging a lot of "normal" 205'ers. When he moves up it goes back to his skill set because the playing field as far as weight is a bit more even.

    S
     
  12. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    I'd bet on a coked up Jon Jones 205 vs any heavy weight you can name.
     
  13. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The same. He should be able to breathe underwater with the steroids and coke his heart should be as big as a basketball pumping blood a 100 gallons per minute.

    LOL.

    S
     
  14. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    I can actually ad some particulars to this debate. Weigh ins are a completely different matter for wrestlers, BJJ players, and dogs than for UFC fighters. Wrestlers and dogs have to compete pretty much immediately after weighing in, whereas UFC fighters get 24 hours plus to rehydrate and restock their glycogen supplies. For example, there was just a guy who weighed in at at, I think 155 (I don't follow things as closely as I used to I work mostly with amateur grapplers now) who was 188 or so before the fight...just crazy. If you cut 10 plus pounds and then have to fight an hour later (I see stupid high school kids who don't listen do this all the time) you will invariably be weak as a kitten on the mat. I tell kids to limit cuts to 4-5 lbs on fight days which can be done easily with water manipulation. Back when I wrestled we did stupid stuff (rubber suits, saunas) that always backfired.

    GSP came to Renzo's a couple of years after I was there (I used to teach at his affiliated school up in Albany) and he was just an absolute machine. Renzo gave him a brown the first day he saw him grapple, he was that good. I think GSP left because he was going to fight Matt (Serra) and they didn't want the conflict but I think (World Champion) Roger and Ricardo (Almeida) and Danaher were they're then, so basically GSP trained with some of the best BJJ guys in the world and they all raved about him. I never rolled with Roger, but my training partner (Jay White, a prodigy) did and he said Roger would just toy with him.

    GSP was widely regarded as the best wrestler ever, who did not have a formal wrestling background. GSP was also extraordinarily disciplined.

    Now BJ, he was the opposite...notorious for being undisciplined, coming in out of shape, and still winning. Just gifted, gifted, gifted (IE The Prodigy) my old training partner also rolled with him. He was 250 lbs and said it was almost impossible to take BJ down.
     
  15. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Not so sure I would count Ngannou out. Also, steroid use in MMA is very different from steroid use in bodybuilding. It is absolutely insane in bodybuilding. Rule number one is you must be willing to die, as I almost learned recently (actually I did die twice, LOL).

    MMA athletes will actually hurt their performance if the use too much, or the wrong types. There are several variables at play: First, the primary reason for gear in combat sports is not to get bigger...it is to aid recovery from the brutal training. You do an hour and a half of striking, an hour and a half of grappling then another hour of conditioning. The human body, naturally, cannot withstand that much training, the gear aids recovery. It enables you to handle the load day in day out...even with gear the trend now is towards less, especially less full out sparring. Last year I spoke with Paul Song and he says when he helped prep Dos Santos they overtrained him so his best fight was in the gym. Also, in MMA if you do too MUCH gear it will hurt your endurance and also put you in a heavier weight class.

    Next, it is type. The most powerful steroid made is Trenbolone, great for bodybuilding but terrible for combat athletes because it hurts endurance. A better choice is Turanibol which increases endurance. The Old Soviet Empire was built on Turanibol. My advice for a combat athlete is moderate testosterone with some Equipoi (increases red blood cell count and endurance) and some T Bol. Halotestin increases aggression (was Mike Tyson's favorite) but a little goes a long way and it is liver toxic.

    I have seen dumb fighters use to much and it usually does more harm than good. I know Jones got popped for T Bol, so we know he was using the right stuff. I doubt he used large amounts because if he did he would not make weight. The coke is just dumb.
     
    david63 likes this.
  16. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    That is the same with the dogs. The work has to be managed because the heavy work will mass the dog and that is a lot of muscle that must be fed (blood/oxygen) late in the night. The object is not to be stronger but to be stronger for longer. I would suppose the same with people.

    The problem with dogs is metabolism. They are running a 100MPH on the inside compared to people. It is not that it is an easy process but it is easier for a human to hit a target than it is for a human to hit a target with the dog. You can use the exact same thing two times in a row on a dog and do the exact same work. Then knock it out of the park once and fall flat on your ass the next.

    With the dogs moreso than people (because they put forth so much more effort per minute of exercise) it is for real about recovery. People sports have times and distances or one max lift. The dog has to be prepared to be done in in a few minutes or a couple of hours. There is no way to dictate or prepare for what the actual show ends up being. A MMA fight can't go over 25 minutes with a break after each five minute round. Dogs must be prepared to go from start to finish without ever stopping. For the dogs one of the better recovery juices is WinnyV. If on target the dog puts in super work and the recovery between sets is unbelievable which transfer to a consistent non-stop pounding and that is hard to hold up under.

    One of the bigger differences in the two between people and dogs is the amount of ability required to make them work. If you can't hit a baseball to start with you can eat a five gallon bucket and you will never be the homerun king. If you can run really fast the juice can get you another few seconds here and there but if you were really slow to start with you will never get world class regardless of needle marks.

    I have seen game plugs be able to go all out for so long that a truly better dog could not hold up. But with that said I have seen far superior dogs blow hot before things got going and lose to that game plug. It cuts both ways, and the target is much more difficult than people. Especially for big time athletes that have access to weekly bloodwork.

    S
     
  17. Jon Jones is so insecure that he has been juicing his entire combat athletic career. PEDS give you astronomical advantages and training benefits. Someone named Daniel Cormier is the most highly PED tested combat athlete his whole career and he never cheated yet he has been at the top elite level for a very long time going into his older age. Nobody else does that. And he's natural.

    Imagine DC on steroids with his genetics and attributes.
    Many people look at him as the first double division defending champion NATTY GOAT hall of famer already, but if he was juicing there would be no question he would be the undisputed GOAT
     
  18. He's another known PED user with terrible genetics. He couldnt cut it naturally like a Daniel Cormier or a Kamaru Usman or a Henry Cejudo. He also abandoned his family lol.

    Heavyweight really is a low level division. The biggest money and popularity and the superior combat sport display are lower weight divisions.
     
  19. If DC was juicing he would be the undisputed COMBAT WRESTLING AND MMA GOAT. He also lost against PED cheaters in his wrestling career.
     
  20. Ssdd

    Ssdd CH Dog


    Had a buddy with some mutts. He and the dogs were on a steady dose of Equipoise(never heard of equipoi) when gearing up for a weekend outing. Watched the same cycle get run on the same dog 3x with the same keep. 3 different animals showed up to run the treadmill each race day. Like you said too many variables and minuet details to get the same results each time.
     

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