Hisotry of EBT's and Staffordshire bull terrier verus Pit bulls in the pit

Well, sir. We liked these Staffs and had to start somewhere, we were not lucky enough to be able to get our hands on your “superior” blood. But your comparison with a house proves your lack of understanding of basic biology. The concept of multi cell organisms is that two individuals mate and over time the superior individuals will pass their genes on therefor improving the species. Single cell organisms though, are exactly the same today as they were millions of years ago.

When it comes to dogs, it depends on the integrity of the breeder! Some improve their stock over time, but most degenerate their stock over time. That is the reason why bloodlines that had their prime 40-50 years ago, like the Mayfield blood, would not stand a chance in the top division of today. Honestly I doubt any of your Staffs would hold their own against the best Staffs of today either…

I doubt that the dog I am referring to really was a cur in the true sense of the word. Any dog can quit, his owner claimed something was wrong with the dog, and the dog got redeemed at several occasions down the line. This particular dog produced a number of offspring´s that held their own against well-bred APBT´s. Some individuals are commonly known, another example was a female that was rolled into a daughter of a grand champion and made her look like garbage.

A real cur would not produce as high percentage of deep game dogs as this one did. Or perhaps he was just producing way better than himself. But, from what I have seen on this board, I would not listen to anything you had to say about any dog. Anything related to you, or your friends is the best thing since sliced bread. The rest you have nothing good to say about.

You assume that I am an uneducated fool with no knowledge, but I heard all these stories when we got involved with that blood- so we were ruthless! Several generations down the line I would like to see any better Staff´s than these with my own eyes! I would be prepared to pay to see them!

For the rest, I don’t get your hang-ups on KC papers etc. We are supposed to be working dog men, how can kc papers be relevant to us? Most never saw any use of them until DDA and similar legislations in other countries…

 

I have just returned from a long weekend of visiting we called in Birmingham then drove down to London and then on to Plymouth and back up through Wales visiting friends from the past who were heavily involved in dogs , between them they owned over thirty Champions and Grand Champions both male and female and had taken part in over 400 matches in this and other countries . Now in all the conversations we had only a couple of those present had ever seen a Blue Stafford matched and this was the now famous CH Phycho/Nero tape of the early eighties , noone had ever heard of a match beytween one of these dogs and a known dogman . Integrity ! you talk about the integrity of breeders ? Well explain integrity to me when a dog stands in its corner barking when relesed ? Then walks to the centre of the pit and walks round its opponnent growling with its hair standing up on its back like a street mongrel ? then the owners push the dogs together to make them fight and they snap and snarl and bark ? then one owner picks up his dog and throws it on top of the other to make them fight ? Then as they snap and snarl one dog bites its handler as hesbent over trying to make it fight biting his chest . Then each in turn quits on its scratch barking and one handler offers to pick the dogs up and cull them the other refuses so the farce carries on . The next cur quits in short time to another known cur from the same bloodline but were led to believe it redeemed itself years later HA HA why did they refuse to match the dog even when offered weight and odds ? Its the same with Jocko and Judas they were open but only to dogs in lollipop land . Your statement about curs producing better than they were puzzles me , i would think anything better than a cur must be better ? The Bullyson dog was a rank cur that quit cold in thirty mins , he produced many game dogs but they produced many curs when bred , can you not understand that ? I dont assume anything our post tell us all exactly what you re a uneducated fool as regards gamedogs , as regards working dog men what do you mean WE i dont know one single person that would give kennel space to one of those dogs you call working , so please dont confuse anything you own with anything i or any of my friends have owned past or present wed all find that sladerous . Your comment about Mayfield dogs puzzles me also , you have never seen a Mayfield dog so how would you know ? Is this some more knowledge you learned by listening to others , you think because you havent seen them they dont exist well genuine dogmen learned years ago not to get involved with those from the land of lollipop and thats why everyone i spoke to over the weekend hasnt heard of lollipop land but then again these friends of mine have done nothing compared to you guys in the land of lollipop . What doi you mean a REAL cur , are there now different ratings for dogs that quit or is this just in lollipop land ? I wasnt my comparisom with a house but your , you mentioned foundations i simply pointed out your were unsteady or i should say derelict , as for superior select individuals passing on there genes thats correct howvor there are no superior individuals to pass it on just dogs with FAKE pedigrees that are CURS and thats what they will pass on and stop calling them Staffs they have Pitbull , Bull Mastiff , Bull terrier and Wheaten blood in them all so they are NOT Staffords but mongrels , as for my hang ups about KC papers i dont have any its you people that LIE and CHEAT and CON putting FAKE pedigrees on crossbred dogs , now tell me how does it feel to know your dogs are bred from CURS that have FALSE pedigrees , this will be my last word about such low value dogs as like my friends said why do you bother talking to such idiots , if they were serious they wouldnt keep such dogs in the first place , keep scratchin and keep licking and sucking your lollipops

 

i have never read so much bullshit altogether in all your posts but this one takes the trophy, you are the most arrogant and self centered fool on this board. on top of all you are a compulsive liar, what a crock of shit everytime you talk about the past dogs you claim are the only ones worth talking about. then you go on and talk about coat color like it matters to the task the dogs were created for. in the time with dogs you have learnt nothing but talk non sense. i have talk to people i know and they have no clue who you are. few on here have the pleasure of seeing and owning staffords were feeding, blue or yellow, so in short all the garbage you talk here is like bringing a bucket of sand to the beach. the dogs youve had in the past have nothing on the staffords i own today and will continue having.

 

You still assume a lot of stuff old man. I own both APBT´s and Staffs. Enough people on here knows who I am and can testify and support this following statement; any dog you may own would look like a slough compared to my dogs.

I have had enough of your bullshit. I happen to be acquainted with the person who is probably the absolute dogman you ever had in your country. He has produced way more champions than you ever did- only difference is that all his titles were legit and can be confirmed. At one time when I visited your country I took the liberty of asking about you, since I have a keen Stafford interest it was a natural topic. He said he never saw you around back in days. He saw all the reports you posted in the SDJ, but nothing else. Interesting that two famous dogmen was present in the same era and one basically never saw the other… makes one wonder doesn’t it?

As a funny side note, the above mentioned man, detested Stafford´s. Thought they were all pure garbage, told everyone to get rid of them. Later on he got a more favorable impression of the Staffs. The reason for that was that he saw a direct son to one of the dogs you claimed to be a cur. That dog was worked a number of times in front of him, proved to be deep game, and held its own against American dogs. Amazing that one of the bullterrier-mixed curs did that, when you and your superior dogs was present all along in the same region? Makes one wonder again, doesn’t it?

I decided to ask the other party again about Beanie III, since you slagged her off at this board. Amazingly they had only good things to say about your female. Said her problem was that she met B3 who was a freaky dog. I got a very sportive and respectful reply from their corner, nothing like the mudslinging you posted here. Recently we also happened to be able to get some firsthand information out of Ireland, about your claimed superior Wheatons. Well to put it nice, what we heard from there is very different from the claims you have made on this board.

Altogether, the information does not add up to a very nice picture. You are dishonest about your own dogs. You are kennel blind. You are a poor sportsman. You downgrade all others, while singing praises for yourself and your dogs. But most of all, you come across as a very unpleasant person. You called me out on this board, but ran like a cur when I contacted you. If you can drive all across the UK as you said you just did. You would surely be able to accept the proposal I made privately…

 

First were have i mentioned Wheatens on this board other than to tell you that your Staffords (ha ha) might have some Wheaten blood ? As for me never matching dogs then just a few that i matched were Ragger who owned CH Joe Montana , CH John Wayne and deadghame Lil Alvin plus dozens more wellknown dogs . No Kidding who owned Swamper , CH Brock , CH J ed , Twister plus many other great dogs , then The Junkyard boys who owned CH Masada and a number of other well known dogs i think Saab was owned by them , also the Scotsman who owned CH Max , CH Yogi , CH Hagar and Bash plus other well known dogs , then the College boys who owned CH Dutch , Fenner etc also i conditioned over thirty dogs for others that were matched into the best dogmen in England but sadly you were not present so it dont concern you , howevor many wellknown dogmen were . As for downgrading and being a poor sportsman ive done more for newcomers than youll ever know have offociated at some of the biggest shows in this country and was known for being fair , ive always given a HONEST opinion of dogs as i saw them be they mine or others and i DID NOT think Beanie 3 was a good bitch thats my opinion , i have seen lots that were better and yes not owned by myself . Incidently the person you made enquiries with about me told me this a few days after at pitside when i worked the Albert dog for his Championship against Rustlers Grape , by the way Albert quit , must have been my conditioning you lollipop and Grape was a good little dog also . As for those you spoke to about my Wheatens how can they tell you anything they never met me or saw my dogs so there opinions mean diddly squat , they must be like you neversaw neverwas Wheaten owners but are experts . Let me tell you one thing here now I DO NOT FIGHT DOGS and havent done so since 1989 when we were busted because some loose lipped fool who wasnt involved in matches decided to report matches and talk about things that DID NOT concern him , anything i talk about is history and in the past , as for your proposal i propose you stay in lollipop land and keep licking , and look at your curnbred dogs with fake pedigrees as for the deepgame dog that proved itself against Pitbulls so what ? its still sired by a shitty arsed cur which means in my eyes its worthless , now you might think otherwise and thats your choice , but next time your stood over Rex or Blueboy 111 ask yourself is he gonna scratch or will he quit like his ancestors did ? keep scratchin (till they quit)

 

I have been reading lots of these posts trying to learn about the history of the SBTs but it is getting sooo confusing as I now don't know who to believe as there is so much mud slinging and contradictions. Can some one else clarify the truth or is it all just opinion's. I would love to get a real good bitch but don't know where to start.

Thanks guy's

 

You are delusional. You made a few posts on this board telling everyone about the superior Weathon blood you had. An enquiry was made to the right people. Just as with the Staffords, your wheatons are not superior…

I pretty much doubt that the person I asked about you told you anything, since he were not in contact with you according to himself. I think that is another illusion on your behalf. But if he did, then you know I am not shitting you.

I really don´t enjoy sitting here and giving you stick. Perhaps you deserve some respect for some of the things you did all those years ago. But when you throw shit all around it is just too much for me! You yourself have posted on several occasions here that the proof is in the pit nowhere else, and everyone just talks bullshit. Well if you have not shown a dog since the 1980´s you’re as full of bullshit as everyone else then. Especially when you call me out without any intentions to back it up! That is a cur thing to do! Did you really believe we were going to run and hide? Ridiculous!

You state the obvious though; I was not present back then. I am not English and at least a wee bit younger than you. But I know the difference between gamedogs and curs. The blood you put down are as game as any other line around. That is the reason they are still around, some people as myself, believe that they are worthwhile. With the selective breeding going on, they will improve even more over time. Your dogs though, will vanish and will probably only be remembered by those who love old stories. You know what? If they quit, they quit, it happens to everyone! It is still worth much more than old stories! As long as you weed out the quitters you have the possibilities to improve the dogs….

 

These are Stafford’s we are talking about, as already said several times there are flaws in every pedigree. None of them has been truly gambred longer than since the 1970´s. A few 20 years longer due to the badger trials. On top of that there are dogs here and there in most pedigrees that has been questioned for one reason or another, you just need to look hard enough.

If you want to get a good dog, your objective should not be to find the faults back in the pedigree; it must be to find the people who have done most to improve their stock! Real breeding is a never ending task that is very quickly spoiled. So something done 20 years ago is not worth anything today. You need to look for people doing the work right now. If there are such people around you, they will probably not be easy to pursue to sell you anything.

So the other option is to try to find the best dogs you can and do the work yourself. This is a very time consuming and expensive task, most people are not up to it. So my advice is to get a dog you like, out of parents you appreciate! Don’t bother about what anyone says about its ancestry and enjoy it as a pet.

 

Thanks ontherocks,
I have a male staff at the moment (kc show dog) and although I love him to bits and he looks good he lacks any real drive and is too tolerant of other dogs when they challenge him, not all dogs, he hates larger dogs. Thanks for your advice, I will keep looking, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

 

herodog1, keep what makes YOU happy thats the most important thing, it dont matter what anyone else thinks of your dogs, you could have a dog that was 10x grch and there will always be a handfull of people that say the dog was shit.thing is eveyone is an expert and everyone has the best,as long as the dog has drive is fit and healthy and well cared for thats what matters most keep your self and the dogs happy.

 

Great post OTR!!!!

 

No he told me you asked for my phone number and he told you he did not have it , as for the dogs you asked about he wasnt in dogs back then and yes he has met me on many occasions AT SHOWS but hey if he wants to tell you otherwise thats up to him . As for my Wheatens tell me were on THIS site ive said my Wheatens are superior to any others its easy to check your the MODERATOR . As for dogs quitting ive had more than my share but unlike you i never bred from those dogs or anything i knew was bred from Quitters and still i cant understand how you can selectively breed from dogs that have known curs and false pedigrees , but your obviously way ahead of me on that one . You talk about the proof is in the pit well how many times have YOU come to England to prove the proof is in the pit ? Also i forgot to mention but was reminded by someone on this board i also matched into Inter City boys who owned GRCH Myra , CH Mike and other greast dogs (and won) also the Bristol boys(and won) and boys from Liverpool (who beat me) with one of those Mayfield dogs you badmouth that was sired by a Champion , but they dont exist according to you for forty or fifty years , also i wrote a article about this bitch for a foreign magazine but according to you i DONT give praise .Though im told that i also wrote in the SDJ praising CH Hagar for his win over GRCH Bruno and again praising Lil Alvin when he lost deadsgame to GRCH Bruno . As for making enquiries to the RIGHT people about my Wheatens you have never spoken to anyone who owned Wheatens in Ireland , i visit Ireland regular and not one person that kept Wheatens in the past has ever mentioned you or knows you and anyone that associated with you would certainly be the last to know anything about my dogs past or present , why would i want people in lollipop land to know anything that would be a very bad move . As for Wheatens tell me who has a purebred Wheaten with no BULL blood certainly not your learned friends whom know so much about the breed . Anyway im now certain your record of wins far outshines my own and your obviously a far better dogman , i simply cant compete with you as your far superior in every way both as a breeder , conditioner and handler and everyone now knows this , you know everybody and i know noone , i just sit here with my memories getting old , keep scratchin

 

I never asked anyone for your phone number. This debate has gone far enough, I have said pretty much what I need to say. You have not said anything new in your latest post, so I am done. People seem to appreciate some of your posts, so please keep posting bits and pieces of history on here. Have a nice day sir.

 

I asked you who YOU have showed and beaten as you claim all my shows were fake and you hadnt heard of any of my opponnents , so i named a few that you ought to have heard off , and will gladly name more that everyone other than you has heard about , i showed more dogs into wellknown dogmen in one year than you have since you came into dogs thats a FACT . So MR MODERATOR id sooner live with my memories and be a has been than unlike you a neverwas thats done nothing only play on a keyboard listening to stories about dogs you never saw had no involvement with but try to change history because your dogs are bred from known curs and you cant handle the truth , i will continue to tell the truth so if you cant stomach it then dont read it , the curs will always be curs be they mine or anyone elses but unlike you i wont make excuses for dogs that quit and hey you have a nice day in lollipop land dreaming about all the shows you NEVER had , finally there was no debate i spoke the truth and always do and you simply cant handle the truth which is understandable when you look on the end of your chains at your curbred false pedigeed crossbreeds , have a nice day and keep dreamin , but id still like to know all the great dogs youve showed , if any ......

 

Your absolutely right in everything you said, have a good evening sir.


[video=youtube_share;UXoNE14U_zM]http://youtu.be/UXoNE14U_zM[/video]

 

Now we know what you look like your a actor wanting to be a dogman ha ha ha

 

Is that what you got out of that??? just asking.

 

Well than. I have a complete mutt at the moment and don't give a shit but I do like the look of the leggy athletic staffs. Given the option I would def own another pitbull but they're illegal here so I'll get me a staff when she dies. My question to any of those qualified to answer, putting APBT's aside are there any stafford kennels you respect for what it's worth? In terms of appearance and work ethic, gameness is of no use to me