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How the Patterdale Terrier came to be

Discussion in 'Patterdale Terriers' started by SOULDOG, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    An old picture of Brian Nuttall and his son.
    briannuttall&son_fs.jpg
     
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  2. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    Most of the folks that write books on dogs would like their breeds to be ancient and have romantic and mysterious origins. Pick up any book on Jack Russell Terriers, for example, and Trump will be presented as the first white foxing terrier on earth -- never mind that the young John Russell selected it for looks alone and had no problem finding another white foxing terrier to mate with it.

    The Border Terrier folks have wrapped the story of their dog completely around the axle in an attempt to give it an ancient origin. In fact this breed was created at about the same time as the Kennel Club was created, and it was pulled on to the Kennel Club roles as quickly as could be.

    As for the Patterdale Terrier, quite a few people claim one person or another created the dog, and yet all seem quite confused as to the shape of the head. Where did that come from?

    In fact it is no mystery, and the true story of the Patterdale is not too deeply buried or very old.

    In 1873, the Patterdale and Matterdale hunts were combined to form the Ullswater Foxhounds. In 1879 Joe Bowman (just 22 years old) was made master of the Ullswater, a position he held (with a few short interuptions) until 1924, when he was replaced by Joe Wear who held the position for then next 47 years. Joe Bowman died in 1940 -- one of the most famous huntsmen of all time (there is even a song about him)

    Joe Bowman was an early Border Terrier breeder, and he was also the first person to cross up a blue-black Border Terrier with a black and tan Fell Terrier (also called a working Lakeland) to create what he called a Patterdale Terrier.

    In Jocelyn Lucas' book, Hunt and Working Terriers, a table at the back notes that the United Hunt prefered a "Lakeland, Patterdale, from J. Boroman's strain (Ullswater kennels)."

    In fact, "J. Boroman" is a typo, and the real man was Joe Bowman.

    Lucas published his book in 1931, and the information in it was collected between 1925 and 1930. The Patterdale Terrier was clearly a type (if not a widely used type) by the 1920s, and it centered on the Ullswater Hunt and Joe Bowman.

    With that knowledge, it was not too difficult a thing (but not too easy either!) to lay a hand on Foxes, Foxhounds & Foxhuning by Richard Clapham, published in 1923. Here we find not only a good picture of Joe Bowman (see top), but the picture reproduced below with caption.

    "One of the 'Patterdale' breed."

    Now we can see that the "Patterdale" name goes back to at least the Nineteen-teens -- a period just before the Border Terrier (which, like the Patterdale, started out as little more than what we would call today a Fell terrier topday) was pulled into the show ring. To see what Border Terriers looked like in 1915, click here.

    At about the time that Joe Bowman was fading out of the dog breeding business, in the 1930s, a young Cyril Breay was stepping up. Breay, like Bowman, had been a Border Terrier breeder.

    In the early 1930s Breay met Frank Buck, when Buck rescued one of Breay's dogs that had gotten stuck in a deep rock cleft and Buck -- an expert at dynamite -- had blasted it free.

    Bucks own line of dogs at the time were descended from Ullswater terriers kept by Joe Bowman, and Breay and Buck soon became fast friends with Breay breeding black dogs from Frank Buck into his line, and Buck crossing tight Border Terrier coats into his. Over time, the dogs of the two men devolved to a type as lines were crossed and condensed.

    Cyril Breay was always adamant that the Patterdale Terrier was not made by crossing in Bull Terrier, and he was not lying. The Patterdale head is no mystery to a border terrier owner - the same broad cranial outlines are evident in both breeds.

    Brian Nuttal began breeding Patterdales in the late 1950s, and says that his dogs are very much like those his father kept in the 1930s. It would not surprise me a bit to find that Nuttal's father got his dogs from Bowman, or from intervening hands that had gotten their dogs from Bowman. What is clear is that the Patterdale Terrier was already a recognized type by the time Nuttal's father owned his dogs.

    The fact that Joe Bowman started the Patterdale strain and named it takes nothing away from folks like Cyril Breay, Frank Buck and Brian Nuttal, all of whom did quite a lot to popularize the breed, maintain it as a working dog, and perhaps improve and stabilize its looks. It is an easy thing to name a new breed (it's done every day by puppy peddlers), but quite another to find a market and a following for the dogs based on their performance in the field.

    I mention all of this (I have told the story before and it is in the book), because I found a rather interesting old obituary on the internet the other day. Note the byline. With some amusement I note that "Greystoke Castle" was (supposedly) the ancestral home of Tarzan:


    September 1956
    PATTERDALE - One of Ullswaterside’s oldest residents, Mrs. Esther Pattinson, Broadhow, Patterdale, died at the age of 85. Formerly Miss Bowman, Matterdale, she hailed from a noted hunting family — her uncle was the celebrated Joe Bowman, huntsman of the Ullswater foxhounds for 42 years, while her great-grandfather, Joe Dawson, was for many years huntsman of the one-time Matterdale foxhounds. Mrs. Pattinson was only 13 years of age when she was hired as a farm girl, later working at Lyulph’s Tower for Mr. James Wood, who was agent for Lady Mabel Howard, Greystoke Castle.



    In the end, it turns out that Joe Bowman was born in High Row, Matterdale and died in Patterdale. It was, no doubt, an added bonus that Patterdale was also the old name of the Hunt that was both his employer and his passion. Finally, it should be noted that Patterdale was also the town where Joseph Dawson Bowman died, at the age of 88.
     
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  3. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    Moderators ...This is the post I would like to keep ... not the other one ... no use in having two of the same writi
     
  4. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    Sorry but don't think this is true, Nuttall's grandfather added local Pit dogs of the time to his terrier's......
     
  5. culabula

    culabula Big Dog

    spaniel in them as well supposedly
     
  6. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    "The Patterdale Terrier is more so a type rather than a breed , being the result of a culmination of working terrier breeds in digenous to the United Kingdom "
     
  7. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    Never heard that one at all.
     
  8. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    And my dogs have Ch. Archie whos off of Ch.Lee's Reno in the 3rd. So whats your point. As long as they get the job done that they were bred for. They were all muts in the beginning and still are.
     
  9. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    What are you talking about?
     
  10. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    You mentioning Nuttall's grandfather adding pitbull to his stock. The Patterdale Is a culmination of Terriers.
     
  11. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    We are talking about the Nuttall dogs.
     
  12. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    Still closely resemble the old Nuttall dogs.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG Top Dog

    Still trying to figure this picture thing out. 20160904_200617.jpg
     
    david63 likes this.
  14. T.P.C.

    T.P.C. Pup

    Very nicely written souldog, I don't think Frain, or Harcombe could do any better.
     
    david63 likes this.
  15. Its a confusing breed of terrier to learn about to be honest......

    The thing about Bowman being a Border terrier breeder is a little of..
    But i found this in Plummers masterly book 'the fell terrier'...
    Plummers reserch in this book as to the origens of the verios types of Northern terrier is imense.and i really do recomend that book as to the history side of these terriers..

    The Fell Terrier by Brian Plummer.
    "Joe Bowman; (Based on the recollection on those whos new him) No book on any aspect on hunting in the Lakes could be complete without a mention of the late Joe Bowman of the Ulswater Hunt,the almost legendery hunter of the Lake District and a equally legendery racounter of hunting yarns.
    Bowmans contribution to the creation of the Fell Terrier is doubtful,however,and there are many coflicting veiws conserning his methods of entering and of his breeding of Fell Terriers. John Farley belives that Bowman kept a strain of red terriers,bred as selectively and carefully as Bowman bred his hounds,but there is great doubt as to whether this is fact or simpley one of the legends. There is even a suggestion that Bowmans dogs were used in the creation of the Border Terrier. North Tyne Gyp(1917)was sired by a dog called Grip,ruputedly out of Bowmans Wasp,who in turn was bred out of two red tan Lakelands,Ullswater Jack out of Ullswater Nellie. Certainly Border Terrier blood did enter into the pedigee of the modern working Fell Terrier,however,for Yaks Bob,a registered Border Terrier,apears in quite a few working Lakeland pedigrees. Might it not therefore also be likely that some Lakeland or rather Fell Terrier blood was included in the making of The Border Terrier? To make any claims regarding the racial purity of any Northern working terrier is not only presumptive but also very unscientific. What is certian is that no relative of Joe Bowman(and i have interveiwed some eleven of Bowmans kin) can remember Border Terriers at the Ullswater kennels."

    He goes on in the same chapter that a famous terrier judge called James Garrow visited the Ullwater hunt kennels and never mentiond seeing a Border..and he would of been well awear what a Border was as he was a famous terrier judge.
    that same jugde says he seen blue and white dogs at the kennls.
    he also says that a reliable witness is Bowmans couisin Walter Parkin huntsman for the Lunsdale.who said Bowman never kept no real strain of terrier and oftern borrowd or begged dogs to flush or kill foxes.and that Russel types were as common as Fell types in Bowmans kennel.
    again in the same chapter he tells of Frank Buck saying when he was ten years old he truented school to watch Bowman hunt and remarked that Bownans terriers had obvious Bedlington ancestery.

    Great book mate.
    i think Plummer interviewd over a hundred top terrier lads from the North just to right that book.and im sure he remorgegd his house just to publish it lol.

    I wished i could print more for ya pal but each chapters pretty large lol.
    hope this helps mate..
    all the best.

    @SOULDOG.
     
    david63 likes this.
  16. Ide say your right there...ide put it as the Fell types are a culmination of Northern terriers..

    I have to just say aswell that the Fell witch is now wrongly called Paterdale..was not the type of terrier bred actully in Paterdale.
    As Plummer points out in his book,the terriers bred in the patterdale area were rough coated terriers of a red or tan color.of the type bred by the Barkers of Patterdale..the type witch Garry Middilton carryd on breeding.a Lakeland rather then a Fell/Patterdale.
    the black dogs witch we call Patterdales now days origeinated more towards Lancishire by breeders like Breay and Buck and then Later Nuttall carryd on breeding these black terriers.
    Breay and Buck its true.denide useing bull blood in there terriers.
    but they did..i no a lad who contacted Nuttall him self in the early 2000s.and alas!Nuttall says hes only got APBT X Fells at the moment for sale.
    now in all fairness to Nuttall.he actully never denide bull blood being in his dogs.Buck and Breay denide it admitidly..but Nuttal never as his interweiw in Plummers book will show.
    in Plummers book Nuttall says his grandfather took two of his terriers to the Northhumbeland mining districts to be blatently mated to the Pit bred dogs in that area..i think this was in the 1920s.
    Frain interveiws Nuttall in his book 'Patterdale terrier'
    and Nuttall tells of Buck bringing a long a pied Bull Terrier on a Badger dig to hold the Badger at the end.he also metions this Bull Terrier was just as keen on grabing the terriers as it was the Badgers lol.
    ive also got another interview of Nutrall in a book by J Darcy.and he also says in that interview theres bull blood in his terriers through Bucks Bull Terrier and thorough the pit dogs used by his grandad.
    im not sure why Buck and Breay denind it?as every terrier breed has got a touch of Bull blood somewere in there ped.
    you can seen the bull in the head on some of them.even a blind man could.
    you can also see some that show sighns of Border terrier in the head.and ofcourse some show very strong sighns of Bedlington blood.(i no one such dog and its indentical apart from its black color to a Bedlington.its even got that weird walking gait of the Bedlington!)and all these types can appear in the same litter.its curious but the Bull headed ones act rather Bullish to.and the Border headed ones seem rather laid back and quiet with a crisp coat-just like a Border!
    clearly showing there ansetery.

    @T.C.P....have you norticed any of what im saying in litters of your own terriers???

    @SOULDOG ill try and PM you the Nuttall interview out of Plummers book when ive got time....ide put it on the board but ive already put enough stuff,and i really dont want to be printing full chapters because i suppose copy rights and all..but im just doing this to help you understand the origen of these terriers..

    Anyways all the best folks.
     
  17. T.P.C.

    T.P.C. Pup

    Yes what is written is all correct. My border type male is high strung the brother red male is more laid back smooth thick coat that of the looks of JP red terriers in some books. Nuttall's grand father was said to have used pit dog blood not staff from brians own words. They were unregistered from what he said in his interview. While doing research on patterdale pedigrees all the terriers have names and nothing is unknow so it would be hard pressed to find out which ones had the cross. As to why he did it, it is still unknown. As brian stated he hunts fox but likes to bolt them or release them to hunt for another day. So why would his practices call for using terriers crossed with pit dogs? Farther reaches showed that border terrier was bred back into the Nuttall line at some point well on paper anyways. It could have been that Brian seen his terriers get to hard and this is why it was done. Alot of green hunters only wanting extremely hard terriers or kill dogs. I think Nuttall bred the border terrier in because he was going down this road and away from the sport of earth hunting. As for Joe i believe he was in part the originator of the fell terrier or what was known as the fell terrier. I feel Breay was the jake wilder of the patterdales and Buck was the action man i could be wrong just my two cents. Hope this helps people on knowing that both the Fell and Patterdale terrier are types not breeds most cant get that for some reason. I try to stay away of big ones and the ones crossed with bulldog, pit dog or staff produce on average terriers to big for me to use. Smaller and durable the better.
     
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  18. T.P.C.

    T.P.C. Pup

    These are clippings from the book along with a added one. Might help shed some light on it.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. Awesome...Thanks for your input @T.C.P.
     
  20. T.P.C.

    T.P.C. Pup

    For what its worth hope this helps some one. I am in no way a expert but enjoy the history of the type. People have different reasons for using these terriers some hunt earth some above ground some just show and have pets, regardless of what anyone does with these terriers getting to the bottom of how lines were created is a must. The patterdale name always seems to point back to Breay and Nuttall more then buck at the end. Breay i believe died in the 70's this was well before alot of the terriers made it to the states. A rather known terrier family in the USA i was in a debate with about white terriers. They said white terriers came from the red terriers and not the black terriers yet i found out that Nuttall produced white legged and white brisket terriers. Sounds like the JRT was added to make white terriers to me as thats what they look like. I have had 7 red and red chestnut terriers of fell decent and yet to have any white breed out of them on the feet or chest only black ones i have had white on the feet and or chest. Please let me know if any one els has heard or seen different would be appreciated and what lines.
     
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