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Kidney Failure

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by F.W.K., Feb 21, 2018.

  1. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    How about when someone buys a dog who quit (Rebel Kennels Whitehead) and then beats a dog like Steve & Co's CH Rooster 4xw?

    Now THAT'S a conditioner!
     
  2. I agree.I just can't see what these so called prescription dog foods are good for(making money for the dog food company's!)wouldn't a dog with damaged kidneys do better from a home cooked diet with a low meat content like a broth of some sort(not lot's of meat in it)mixed with some sweet patato or some brown rice perhaps?another thing a lot of people don't do is soak the dry food.I believe not soaking it is bad for a dog no matter how high quality the kibble is.what's all your opinions on that?!I find the dog shits more when the food is not soaked and its coat seems duller.I read some thing some were that the dogs kidneys have trouble breaking down the proteins in the dry food when its not soaked.is this true? What does every body think???....p.s I don't think nothing can beat a raw diet..if fed correctly..
     
  3. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    Fed correctly is the key, and why the vet formulated diets are going to be far better for your dog with kidney failure verses trying to meet the needs of your dog with zero knowledge of the balance that is needed.

    Unless you're prepared to "experiment" with your dog and get expensive blood work done regularly with the burden of possibly causing more damage to your dog's kidneys. The vet formulated diets are going to be far superior. Like stated above they are formulated with the proper ratios of protein, vitamins and minerals to ease the load on the kidneys.
     
  4. Sir I have never met a vet that cared about my dogs.they just wanted money.it may be different were u come from,but I can assure u were I come from vet's r shite!!!....the expensive (prescription) food they sell over here is shite all so...not trying to argue what so ever...but I think I could cook my dog better food then any vet over here can percribe!.... P.s. maybe the so called prescription dry dog food in the stats is a lot better....as y'all seem to understand dogs a lot more over there...the vet's over here are years behind comperd to the good old U.S.A....vet's here r shite!!!..they haven't a clue!!!..
     
    Box Bulldog and oldguy like this.
  5. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    I don't disagree a lot of veterinarians are below par, but they themselves aren't the ones formulating the feed. There is a lot of science and research that has been done over the years to formulate these diets specifically for dogs with certain illnesses.

    Anyhow like I stated, if you have a dog with active kidney failure do you think you can do better for him than all the research that has gone into a bag of a kidney diet kibble? Which has zero to do with the competence of your active veterinarians.

    In reality it is of no concern of mine, it is your animal to do with as you choose.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  6. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    If your vet is selling it to you, it benefits them somehow...
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The difference between home cooked and home brewed is the type of proteins. The vey prescribed Science Diet types are an easier assimilation for the dog and the kidneys do not take the beating.

    One of the above posts is very true. A person could eventually nail down a diet that works really well for a dog with failing kidneys. It would take a number of attempts balancing not only the right amount of proteins but the right proteins. Then follow that up with complete blood work ups to see where the balance is at, then adjust.

    For the dog, the bad part is that while you are adjusting, his already weakened/damaged kidneys take a beating.

    Using the Science Diet types all the experimenting and researching has been done.

    But it is a 'to each his own' concept as well.

    S
     
  8. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    Hey slim 12 ... although I agree with a lot of what you say I'll have to disagree on feeding a dog that has kidney problems refined and processed kibble. With all the preservatives and shit that the kidneys have to get rid of. That will definitely beat up up kidneys.
    No matter what you feed your still gonna need blood work done. There's many different kinds of kidney problems and every dog and kibble is different.
    Its the quality of protein that the dog takes in that is most important. Kibble has been so refined and processed the quality of protein isnt there.
    Usually its waste product from protein digestion which is nitrogen. Its measured as the Blood Urea Nitrogen. (BUN) When a dog has kidney problems the dog holds ammonia, nitrogen and acids. Its called Uremia.
    The higher the quality of protein the less nitrogen. Hense a raw diet. Eggs, raw meat, vegetables and maybe some fruits. Atleast 50 % good raw protein.
     
    slim12 and Soze the killer like this.
  9. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    That was meant for Yellow JohnJocko to.
     
  10. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    Hello Souldog, I appreciate your response.

    While I feel you make great points, the fact is the average person has no idea the nutritional needs of a canine, especially one suffering from failing kidneys.

    The science and research has proven that a restricted protien, sodium and phosphorus diet is optimum and added healthy fats and probiotic supplements are key. This will help keep the blood urea levels on a good functioning level.

    So no protien isn't the most important factor necessarily , as low phosphorus levels are proven to aide in the quality of life of an animal with renal failure. Low protien diets are needed with attention on keeping the animals weight up so that they do not waste away.

    These diets are formulated in this way which has been proven effective to restore many more months and years to the animals life.

    I'm certainly not saying one can not prepare their own feed, but I am saying that without extensive research and care given to the choices of things you do feed it will be difficult to meet the nutritional needs of a fatally sick animal.
     
  11. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    You talk funny !!!!!????
     
  12. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    LORD HELP ME !!!! LOL
     
  13. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    No it won't.
     
  14. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    Wtf?
     
  15. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    Share your feed for kidney failure, and subsequent blood tests. Hell I'm all for learning.
     
  16. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    It doesn't take extensive research to feed a dog with kidney problems like you stated.
    GOODLUCK LOL♧♧♧
     
  17. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Good article FWK, Thanks! I bought an adult male once and every time I worked him, the subcutaneous layer beneath his fur filled with fluid so he resembled a big sponge, I tried rubbing and massaging the fur to flush the fluid out of him but eventually even I figured his kidneys weren't working properly, I discovered the previous owner used steroids, so that kind of confirmed it for me.. Lots of great info as usual from Slim and Yellow JohnJocko, but Soze's post about the vets over here being shite! #24.. You got that one spot on amigo.. They should be wearing balaclavas or ski masks for asking the prices they charge for treating animals.. between £60-80 UK pounds just to vaccinate one puppy and because vaccines are prescription only here, it makes it difficult for the working man to vaccinate dogs himself.. The vets have a complete monopoly on canine treatment here, making £££££££££££ out of it and creating a black market in canine meds.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  18. Thanks.very good point!..I no their has been tone's of research done with dog food over the years.and I think (perhaps)that some of the food is very good.....but come on, its a biscuit.and their ain't no way of saying what is in every actual biscuit. No matter what the ingredients say!..ingredients lie!..now what if I have a dog that needs a certain food?...trial and error right?..so what if my dog's kidneys are bad?trial and error?..which as u say is gunna put more strain on the kidneys till you find the right food...now if I could find the RIGHT type of dry food then I would most definitely use it.but were I am all these fancy foods behind the desk are useless.they have a type for nearly every allergy from bad skin to bad kidneys to bad eyes!!!if your dogs eyes are going no food is gunna sort that...I really don't trust some of these so called dog food company's it is a massive money making empire and no matter what research has been put in none of these researchers actually own working dogs....man its like they have typed in to google to see what a dog needs then made some biscuits on a mass scale.you go to a vet and he tells u,ya need this ya need that.and of course people are gunna believe them there vets!...were I am,I'll say it again percribed dog food is shite!..vet's r shite!...
     
  19. Old guy what did u do with ur dog?that must av been a real blow!...and old guy u r right about the vets having a complete monopoly on canine treatment here.they really don't care about peoples dog's,they just see money signs soon as u walk through the door.I have had lots of trouble with vets over the years and I believe the are part of the problem and not the cure!!iv had countless arguments with them,and I try to stay the fuck away from them (for the dogs sake!!!).all the stuff u said about vaccinations is all so true(iv had a few arguments with them over this to,which is another discussion). bottom line is I don't trust them as far as I can throw them!!!.....p.s.can u refer me to a good one?!....LOL!!!!.....rear as hens teeth over here my friend...
     
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It is one of those topics that most are saying the same thing, just in a different way.

    There are vets that rip people off. There are vets that take advantage of not only their monopoly on canine treatment but then parlay that on to the fact some people look at their animals as a part of the family. It is easy pickings for some.

    The science behind the Science Diets/kidney failure type feeds has already been done. The reason why? Regular bag food would finish the kidneys and the dog off in a much shorter time span. The underlying reason, the one not spoken, but all know it is true....most people who own animals should not be allowed to own plants. Simple as that. Believe it or not as the performance aspect of the animal increases the actual, I mean actual knowledge does not increase at the same rate.

    Meaning, the number of people who could actually balance a diet for a normal healthy dog are a lot less that one would expect. The number of people that could dial in a diet for kidney function/renal failure/Uremia is even less than that.

    I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying the overwhelming majority need to take advantage of the work that has been done.

    S
     
    Kaos483 likes this.

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