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Non US lines

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by GK1, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    Well bred dog palooka!=D> The blood behind him is legends to me.. I'm already a fan of Loposy blood and a while back I was lucky to spend an afternoon with BMC, messed around with Moya, Jackie Brown and some others, came away with a lot more knowledge than I arrived with.. Respect!
    palooka likes this.
  2. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    How did that litter danny x rosita work out oldguy ? Remember there been danny x sully litter about the same time
  3. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    I wanted him to use one of kk ‘s dogs over rosita like chad etc but must admit i liked the red boy breeding in danny
  4. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    Danny x Rosita was an unlucky litter mate, a lot went to bad homes, but the ones I know of were crazy, hard keepers, no talent and real game.. Jinx was like that anyway.. The Danny x Scully litter was different, Id say one female I saw was outstanding.
    reids skipper likes this.
  5. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    Hard keepers ? Mate
  6. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    They'd bark all day, chew the chain, try to chew through sheet metal panels and wreck their teeth.. Put them into a pen inside the shed and you'd walk in and find them hanging off wooden roof beams, shaking the fuck out of them like a springpole! Just hard keepers!
  7. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    They a Ball ache them that bark all day ...i had a few like that ... they do your nut in mate
    oldguy likes this.
  8. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    Think that would have been a good cross oldguy ? That chad got mated to sully too mate
  9. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    KK's (boyles) dogs another example of good US lines that made an impact in EU, but then crossed out, and died out in relatively short space of time for whatever reason it is that we just keep losing great genetics that gets sent from USA.. Just my opinion.
  10. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    Why do you think them lines like the two toes boyles , frisco stuff etc never really made it over here oldguy .... think its cos they were really well bred on paper but not pre potent etc ? ... thats if the papers were right though as stated ? ... or do you think they were just crossed with the wrong blood ? always remember that rosita seemed to get passed from pillar to post and was mated to top dogs but never really made the impact that was expected
    Dusty Road likes this.
  11. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    my experiences with hard keepers is that their seldom worth feeding, i wont keep them, who needs the stress.
    reids skipper and oldguy like this.
  12. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    Two Toes, Boyles and Frisco.. What is it known for? What traits did people breed for with them dogs and what percentages of those traits did they achieve in their breedings? I'm not knowledgeable on those particular bloodlines but I assume the people who imported them done their homework and had an idea of what they'd contribute? I got a fair idea of Reid traits and percentages, the Skipper dogs and crosses were my focus for a long time.. I learned what I could about the blood and I saw them! Nothing beats that.. 'Seeing is believing!'
    DISCOIII and reids skipper like this.
  13. oldguy

    oldguy Top Dog

    My experience is you're probably right :)
    palooka likes this.
  14. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    back to the original question and surprisingly when i looked through pedigrees of passed and present dogs ive owned, ive yet to find one that didnt have at least one american bred dog in the first 3 generations. i thought finding 3 generations of non american bred dogs would be easy but apparently not.
  15. reids skipper

    reids skipper Top Dog

    Some of Rustlers dogs never had americans dogs in the first three generations palooka ... cant think of anymore like this ?
  16. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    palooka I certainly don’t have any evidence one way or the other either and this is one of those topics with no clear answers.

    Hard (maybe impossible) to find a true working Belgian, German or Dutch shepherd with 3 generations of American bred working/titled ancestors. To quote a friend of mine, “I’m alive for decades because Americans can’t breed shit.” Those words sting, but difficult to prove him otherwise.

    I think the skills of multigenerational families of breeders in some European countries have something to do with it. Maybe cultural, regional influences too.

    Unlike those successful, European based kennels, inbreeding is practiced regularly with the APBT, and effectively. When I started the thread, I guessed the principal of inbreeding would allow for a much narrower breeding pool and therefore a higher percentage of success outside of the US.. since less dogs would be required to sustain a successful family/kennel of dogs. Maybe such is not the case??
  17. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    I think a lot of it depends on the individual doing the breeding.

    There are great American breeders in every breed. The problem arises is because America thrives on capitalism and the selling (and at the same time ruining) dogs is as a good example as any.

    Without any real data I would say Americans import more dogs than any other country in the world and at the same time only exports a small percentage. I would say of the dogs exported from America the bulldogs are the largest part of that.

    Americans have bred the work out of more working dogs than any other country in the world. Believe it or not, the war stories of working is far more valuable in selling dogs than the working of dogs. If that makes sense.

    I inherited a Rottweiler who had been imported from Austria. His family was chock full of accomplished working/service dogs. What I learned when he was 12 months old was he had two fan clubs. A working community who wanted to land something from the mother ship. And the show community who needed his pedigree to sell dogs bred for the show but advertised as a working dog. If that makes sense.

    The bottom line is that in America it is all about getting to a sellable puppy.

    That will ruin the best of breeds.

  18. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    Not just the USA really....bulldogs can pull in the wrong types outside the us who need a huge nasty pit bull the more man hungry the better.
  19. this post brought back a lot of memories man
    hersh frydman rip send buzz over
    I thought britannia holly was stolen
    the last one I heard of swamper was way back a dog named skallywag not the one in europe called scallywag
    I think I had danny at my yard or a brother and helped a friend ship him

    u know in the past it was always camps , u kept your blood close didnt sell anything , maybe that was a reason for it dissapearing
    but it also created fierce competition
    also the small yard sizes didnt help
    stedz, oldguy and kiwidogman like this.
  20. It happens within a 6 month period I lost 2 great ones and a great producer
    when u can keep only a handful and basically run on your own that is a hard blow it's tough to come back , and a lot will take the quick route and import new ones
    because its tougher to think , refocus and keep building

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