Pelican Brief

Limey you once put out a Pelican Brief, could you post it here?

 

Its floating around in syberspace somwhere i dont have it anymore. you can probely find it on this site.

 

My son found it its the shorter version



The Pelican Brief


This story is based on half-facts, half-truths and is wishful thinking in a certain direction that could be close to the truth, but is by no means the whole truth. It is just a hint for the readers to think in a certain direction when breeding bulldogs and why some of the legendary old-timers are still on the top of the mountain after all these decades of breeding their family, because they carry a big hidden secret about the truth of one of the greatest clicks in history to produce awsome bulldogs. Some time ago I was studying the roots and backgrouwnd off my bulldogs again and of other major bulldogs from the past with the help of pedigrees on line. It went pretty good and fast I came across the Eli/Boudreaux dogs and especially the Eli dog himself and the dogs before him. To my surprise I saw that he came from light coloured dogs who where red bred and/or white buckskin and white brindle dogs traits from the Colby bloodline The Eli family turned from these colors black almost overnight,Eli is he's heavy Dibo inbred bred and since Dibo was one of,"" if"" not the most important prepotent producer of his days it kinda looked odd that the Eli family turnd black overnight.

When I arrived at my friend's yard in Texas, USA, we started to talk about the various Eli familys and stuff and my friend told me (who was close with Jerry Clemmends for some time and who owned the Niggertoby dog for some time, that he bought off Clemmends) that Clemmends and one of the less known but one of the best Eli breeder of the past, J.D. Elliot, had said to him "If you ever breed these dogs good and tight and a red one comes along, keep that one, as it most certainly will turn out good and you need him to breed back into your black family stock".

My friend never understood why and he told me that they never told him why. He took me to Jerry Clemmends place who I met and his very nice wife. He gave us a yard tour and showed us his famous Six Bits dog ,and some others and youngsters.

He didn't have a lot of dogs around, about 12 or so, but it was educational and very nice to meet up with this old-timer and the man who bred Bullyson, Eli Jnr and Brendy.
A couple of days later I was picked up by another friend off mine from the Bulldog Ranch. He took me up to Louisiana and we visited Floyd Boudreaux. I was impressed and sirprised to some extent by the same looks his bulldogs had as our dogs, and what I liked the most was that 90% of them were all black.

He had a couple of red rednosed dogs and you could see that they were old-time stuff like the Wallace dogs were looking, and sure enough that stuff when back to that old stuff. he had one or 2 lighter coloured dogs as well.
Now I knew that his dogs were awful tight bred, but looked so good ,
something that didn't hit me right then.
We had a lovely day and me and my wife and friend and Mr Boudreaux had dinner at a sea food restaurant cajun style!!.
When I got back to my friends place a couple of days later I told him that these Boudreaux dogs looked too good compared with there inbred peds and that I found it odd that these 2 men after so many years in the game, still were and are the best Eli breeders around.
I couldn't help thinking about an interview with Danny Burton who once said ,that Earl Tudor loved the ""Henry"" dogs the best and that they were big headed black dogs with reddish eyes and they were crazy to fight and nobody knew where they came from????

I suddenly realised that it could be that Earl Tudor kept 2 familys registered under ONE name which is known as the Dibo family ,so he could have these Henry dogs registered as Dibo dogs but infact they were a secret family, who when bred together made one hell of a click. He also said to danny Burton when he was his studend the first thing you need to learn as a dogman is how to cheat!!!!!!

Ain't it funny that these Boudreaux bred dogs turned black overnight?? and are bred so tightly that they actually would not be able to function.
Ain't it funny that the red ones that popped up should be used to be bred in.
Why was Carvers Black Widow stolen back by Tudor, bred to his (Dibo) Spike dog 2 times and destroyed.
Why was the Ni gger dog, Earls favourite dog, with his favourite pedigree?? In them days he had the same pedigree as many other dogs around Earl's group. There was one difference and that was that Ni gger was black!!.
All of a sudden, in a time span of not that many years apart, these great known ace dogs in the likes of Eli Jnr, Bullyson, Zebo, Pit General, Alligator, and so on, popt up.

It sure is funny that most of these lines clicked very well together and/or more important clicked with the same outcross families who YES WERE HEAVY DIBO BRED, like Snooty blood or Boomerang blood.
Some of us remember the Eli(Henry) x Snooty (Dibo) crosses of yesterday, together with the Zebo(Henry) x Snooty(Dibo) crosses and,
the Alligator (Henry) x Snooty (Dibo) crosses or the Zebo x Eli breedings or Alligator x Eli breedings, Bullyson (Henry) x Arts Missy (Dibo) or the Eli x Boomerang crosses.
Most of these legendary dogs where a product of Henry x Dibo cross registered under one name as Dibo dogs, but in fact they where battle crosses which could be the reason them pure bred Eli dogs are still looking so good and perform good!!!!, while on paper are bred awfully tight, too tight if you ask me.

Don Malony had them pure Dibo dogs, the best one he probably ever had was the Toot(sire of Tombstone) dog who was double bred Tudor's Ch. Spike. Toot was like his Dibo ancestors, a real Dibo dog, light coloured red dog like Dibo and Tudor's Ch. Jeff.
what about Tudor's Ch. White Rock and so on.
Where did the black colours in Eli and the Ni ger and Zebo bloodlines came from?? Why was Black Widow stolen? Why did they steal the old Eli dog? Why did Zebo come out of the same part of the country where they knew Eli went to.
Why thuse he has a reversed Henry pedigree, why do they say he's a son of Eli? Why was Pit General stolen? Why? Why? Why?

Too many coincidences surround the legendary black aces of the past.
Last but not least, the conning and stealing probably started with Tudor's sins. Ni gger was his favourite dog in colour and pedigree but he later sold him becouse he wasn't a hard mouthed ability dog , he was NOT a cur in contrary what a lot of people think.
This rumour was spred by Don Maloney who wassend present at the time of Ni.ggers oil chek.
only with Tudor and Burton and mayfield.
Maloney didn't like Tudor taking a liking in Burton. He named his son Earl, Maloney got the Dibo dogs and Burton the ni.gger (Henry blood) witch produced Pit General.

Another ace dog who is believed to be a Henry/Dibo cross is Gr.Ch. Art. His daddy being Eli Jnr and his mommy the Java bitch, a red Carvers Pistol bred dog with some Miss Spike and Coton Bullit in there.
Last but not least, bloodlines built around dogs like Chinaman whose daddy came out of Eli Jnr (Henry) x Curtis' Sugar (Dibo) and as mentiond before Gr.Ch. Art out of Eli Jnr x sister of Sugar called Java.
The the Nelis (Henry) x Tug (Dibo) or Spike (Henry) x Tug (Dibo) crosses, .produced dogs who where a cut above the rest

Tug being Tombstone/Toot/Carvers Pistol/Miss Spike, bred out of mainly pure dibo bred red dogs, while Nelis /Spike are Henry black bred through Alligator x Eli blood.

A coincidence? I dont think so! I can go on and on, but it would be nice for the readers to do some pedigree researching and digging them selves and seek out the hidden secrets used for 30 or so years to breed outstanding dogs. Like I said it's half-truth, half-fiction and wishful thinking, but I'm sure the truth is up there with it ...

 

Thanks!
Have read this ones years ago, and made me think!
Years back I also read an article about using colour type selection.....
Basically it was stated that if you linebreed / inbreed on a certain dog, the dogs you are using yor your program not only should act good but also have to be the closest thing within appearance of the dog you are breeding too.......
See, I consider linebreeding or inbreeding a good tool to provide you with a solid base but you have to outcross once in a while.....
Concerning Black Widow, she was showing up behind many decent dogs from the past, as all are mostly researching the males, I believe a good producing female is the lock and seal within a programm.
Sure you can´t reproduce her as much as a male but I do care a lot about femle key dogs!

Limey the questions you asked within the pelican brief are what I concern to be of bigger importance than many people can imagine!
Therefore I appreciated this article pretty much as I read it the first time.
A major point is that most people did falsify pedigrees back then as they apparently didn´t want others to gain their success.
Corvino aswell as Tudor and others kept it that way!
Also there have been funny stories about dogs that carrying some houndblood in them, hence the thick tail stories...........
Just imagine them peds that have these purebred but unknown dogs in them, when it comes up to the bottom part (females) it always males me laugh!!!!!! A purebred female put some pups on the ground but you don´t know who this dog was!!!!!!
Often heard statements like don´t care about a dogs ancestry aslong as this dog works.......
Just recalling a dog Bingo Kennels sucessfully campaigned or the 35 Story.......

Thanks for posting the Pelican Brief! I appreciate it pretty much!

 

yeah OTD when i stated in another thread that i had my suspicion's that some early dogs may have been crossed with hounds some folks was saying that sounds stupid.But i know a coon houd could be just as game as a pit.maybe not the ability or mouth but def gameness

 

I personally wouldn´t state that they are as game as the APBT but may some crossed dog might get the job done 1 or two times and has been given away and ended up as a brood!

 

doginhold i dont think a coon hound could stand it with a pit i no way shape or form but they have been known to die in the hunt and u dont get more gamer than dead.Coon hounds have been known to tangle with hogs and mountain lions to the death. i would imagine early hunters crossing them with pits trying to create the ultimate hog/hunting dog

 

No I meant a crossed dog for example pitbull / hound peddled to someone as a purebred, winning one or two and afterwards getting into the breeding!

 

Dog in Hold the color type selection was my articel as wel!!!..
Funny that you gave the coun houd pit bull twist to the story. no way that anny other dog then a pitbull carie more gameness. But when Scotty Nelson Lived in my partners (Goldeys) house for 3 months, He did stated that Earl tudor got black dogs from the UK till the 50,s !!!!!!!!!!!!. now this hase never been confirmed, but the time frame and my pelican brief, could make a lot of sens. Its known that the English dogs known as the SBT on averich have a harde mouth and tent to be lesser game!. and have a lower % of game dogs, SAME with lots of ELI / BULLY famelies who where crossed with famelies known for there gameness. we can speculate and go deeper into it, but it wil always be a unproven fact and a rumour. many leads however do point in a sirtin direction. that someting was and still is fishy.....

 

The Colour Type selection is a great read and almost like gospel to me!
What belongs to UK imports / Tudor etc. didn´t Pete Sparks import some SBT back then????
Thought I heard some gossips!
The Hound stuff was told by the owner of Alvin the dog aswell some people told me similar stuff back then.
They said if you have something down from the old Carver stuff that has a thick tail you could bet your life that there´s at least a part of hound in it! They stated that Maurice Carver had some hounds back then!
What belongs to the SBT eventually bred in I know that within the AmStaf it definitely took place in the early years as most American breeders thought this would be the same breed and they even have been judged on conformation shows as the same breed!
Hell knows what Tudor and some other oldtimers did back then.........
Fake peds, stealing dogs and maybe crossing some stuff in.........
Who knows!

 

yes lots of mistiek en tales in pitbull world. but if your on top of your game and done your time ,you get this feeling witch makes you able to sif tru the BS . color and type is a absolut must in breeding doga when you breed on a sirtin carasteristics of a foundation dog,s and or famely carasterics.. a nice aczamlpe where things whent compleatly south and wrong is the mayfield stuf. they talk nigger blood and the dog apears 200 times in a ped yet al i see is crap and not a single nigger dog. yet some dogs with mutchs less nigger in there peds who do represend that geneticel make up are ofcours a superior gene pool. a comen problem in the usa and in the world over is staking names and titels. absolute BS... Type and color breeding IS as far as im consired a great way to reduce geneticel variation on the bloodline and ore dog your breeding on ore for..

 

It´s almost likeif you are linebreeding on a certain dog, all your stuff must have the typical appearence and characteristics, if you could add some on what this line or dog you are breeding onto is lacking then go ahaed!
Outcrossing must be done from time to time to avoid genetic depression or manifesting of deseases or other faults but soon as hell, if I´ll ever linebreed on a dog he must almost be the exact replica of the dog I´m linebreeding to, if I could add some other extras, then I´ll sure as hell will proceed that way and would do my best to produce well balanced healthy overall good dogs percentage wise!

This means don´t be blind about your own program, be honest to yourself and a hard but fair judge to your own stock, get as much information as you can take a look by yourself at it and then decide wheather it is crap people told you or if there´s some truth in it!

See, I own a dog that is Topsite bred on Ironjoe, motherside it´s Sorrell´s stuff. I also owned a dog that had Dylan blood in it!

An experienced dogmen could almost tell you by the look of a dog if he´s from a certain line!

I remember leaving some people stunned thinking I´m a bloody newbie looking at a dog and stating must be from this line or that line!!!!!!

These people have been honest dogmen, one even sat an AmStaf directly in front of me, hell I even have been able to tell him this dogs direct ancestry as he had soem trademarks that he gave to most of his progeny!

See I´m a working dog fancier, I dealt my whole life with Rottweilers, working type English Bullterriers and working / showtype AmStafs and thing is within working dogs, that if you have some stock that fit your needs, then do your best by reproduce the same quality as this certain dog is so they have to act like him or even better and look like him, therefore no one can fool you about the line he´s coming from.
They all have their certain pros and cons aswell as certain trademarks, every once in a while there´s a dog that absolutely stands out and this one should be reproduced and even bettered in his progeny!

 

bulldogs have had many outcross with different breeds.....SBT/hound/EBT/Amstaff/AMbulldog.......oldtimers and dogs in the 70s (painter/magherita/tappia) line have had infusion of other breeds kept on their yards. If it clicked it was kept. An 1/8th cross into a inbred Game dog can provide vigour. Most of them dogmen wouldnt admit to it.....but they would cull these critters more heavily and breed back into the same blood.

Who really knows....but the variation in game dogs comes from somewhere.

YIS