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Raw feeding, prey-model diet

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by The Lionheart, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    it’s not either/or for me, nor do I do a cost analysis. I feed Orijen kibble, but rarely by itself, usually supplemented with soft boiled egg, kefir yogurt, soups, variety of cooked proteins, other home cooked leftovers, vegetables. Obviously not all kibbles are created equal.

    I also feed raw meat, organ, bone, or in combination with kibble. What’s avail, within budget. I do what I can with two family dogs that seem to be perpetually hungry, alert and energetic with zero allergies/ailments. When the vet says my hounds are strong, and among very few maintained at an optimal weight, I suppose I’m doing something right.
     
  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    With no scientific study or testing to back up what I think I can give an honest, "I think so". But at the same time it is the time of year all the dogs get an increase in the fat content of their diet. On the higher fat diets and the deer meat there is a lot energy from the fat and pretty good 'off the chain recovery" and I credit that to the deer meat. It is lean and packed with protein. The creatine concentrations can only help.

    On the flip side I have never fed a lot of deer meat in the summer time when the dogs are less active so I can't compare the two.

    The deer meat is a staple for red meat in the keep. One it has been free in the past, the dogs eat it well, and it is that time of the year.

    S




     
  3. raemei

    raemei Pup

  4. Andre

    Andre Pup

    What does anyone think of switching back and fourth. Like let’s say every 3 days. One day kibble, then raw, then kibble?
     
  5. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Not sure why you'd want too but you can feed both. Just don't feed both at the same time, same meal. Raw digests faster than kibble so feeding both in the same meal can bind them up inside. Other than that, should be fine.
     
  6. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I mix and match the two. My feeding goes in waves between the two as well. The dogs are fed well, (since I got sick last year I just recently started being the primary feeder again and the few I have left were fed to 'hog fat' status). Things are getting back to normal/healthy for the dogs.

    Sometimes the bowls look like I supplement dry food with raw and other times it looks like I am adding some dry to a raw diet. I feel like I have some balance in the way I feed but I am not a nutritionist nor a biologist so I go with what I think works and change when I see things go south.

    Yesterday the majority of the feed pans were heavy in chicken backs/leg quarters/fresh eggs with a small shot of dry food. Today will be the same and then tomorrow as well. All next week it will be much heavier on the raw than the dry. The following week it will be pretty much the opposite. The following week I will be back on shift. I leave just before 5AM and home just after 8PM when on day shift and the same times flip flopped when I am on night shift.

    With my schedule there has to be some sacrifice for time. The inconvenience of feeding raw food compared to the convenience of feeding from a bag pushes me to a lean on the dry food a little more.

    So I feed in waves between raw and dry. Unless a dog is being heavily worked I do not factor in digestion rates between the two.

    It would be better for the dogs if I went all RAW all the time but it is for too inconvenient with my work schedule and getting other things done. Over the years, on average, I have been able to do raw feeding cheaper or really close to the same but for me the trump card has always been the time and effort between the two.

    S
     
    Andre likes this.
  7. Andre

    Andre Pup

    Yea that's what I meant, one day kibble, the next day raw, then kibble again the day after. It's just an idea I had, I have many different feeding plan concepts in my head. My thought process for this though, was that let's say you feed kibble two times in one day. One meal in the morning, after a workout, then again at night. The next day no feed in the morning, but a chicken quarter at night. To kind of clean out their stomach, workout their jaws and clean their teeth. Basically the best of both worlds.
     
  8. Bear83

    Bear83 Pup

    I feed my dog raw/cooked as a supplement. Raw only if I know where the meats are coming from. If I get it from the grocery store I fully cook it. I don’t 100% feed raw/cooked Incase I ever have to go away and my dogs have to be cared for by someone else. (Not everyone is ok feeding or touching raw meats) so I use a high calorie kibble (have hard keepers) to free feed to. (Access to kibble 24/7.) I’m not opposed to feeding whole poultry, rats, etc however I’d have to raise it myself before I’d risk feeding it to my dog. People pump livestock/feeder type animals with so many toxic chemicals I wouldn’t want to risk killing my dog. Besides I’m Already risking it by feeding a commercial kibble.
     
  9. Im amazed some folks talking here feed twice a day..
    Im sorry.but a grown dog dose not need two meals a day.

    @slim and @AGK....
    do any of you guys feed twice a day?

    If so...whats the reason for this?

    im sure it was Frank Fitzwater that realised a dog dont fully digest its food for 36 hours..
     
  10. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I feed adults once a day. In the winter, if I notice they they are getting too lean I will just up the feed by a cup but they still eat just 1 time a day and once I get the weight back to where I want them I take that extra cup away. Pups under 4 months old always have food in the bowl and from 4 to about 8 to 10 months old I do feed twice a day.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  11. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Dogs have an 8 to 10 hour digestive track. You feed in the morning they're empty by the evening. I feed around 5pm every day unless I have a specific reason to feed them at a different time. That way I know my house dog is empty while I'm at work.

    Humans don't even take 36 hours to digest our food fully and our digestive tract is a lot longer than a dogs.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  12. Thanks AGK...

    I did not no that.
    i always just essumed some food sourses digest faster then other food sourses..so there for thought digestion in dogs or people can vary accordingly.

    I dont no why Fitzwater thought how he did.???
    many hours of lol.
     
    AGK likes this.
  13. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    I feed twice a day. My thoughts are more is absorbed by two smaller meals than one big one. Shit seems harder and less of it. But I am no expert just doing what seems to work better for the dog. My ears will be open for you all to chime in on this. A little advice can go a long way.
     
    AGK and Soze the killer like this.
  14. Cool bro.Honesty...its a rear thing.

    Dogs gauge.
    My thoughts..(and im no expert either)is that (this is just a thought and i may be ridiculed on this lol)most wild canids eat one meal less then every day..but most primal people would of only had one real meal a day(if they were lucky.but lets say they were in this case).so there dogs would have only got that to...

    Now ive been thinking about what AGK just said about the dog digesting its food every 8-10 hours..and lol.i should already of fucking known this because i pick the shit up!.and now i think its once early morn and once late at night,witch means AGKs maths add up.(and also means that im a fucking stoned mong lol.)
    so if you feed twice a day...dose or can it complicate things?
    I have fed twice a day in the past.apart from the dog putting a little more weight on.it never harmed it..
    but i found it not worthy of doing,as dogs are smaller then people and simpely dont need as much bulk in there diet as us.so dont need meal after meal.the way we do.
    i used to think that maybe i could do more work with the dog as he would have more calories and energy of two meals..but i found that feeding twice a day takes time,and he was better doing lots of adventures all day long and feeding once of a night..
    I found him breathing better on his adventures of one meal.
    Hope that makes sense?

    it did not suite me..i just think a grown dog only needs one meal a day.
    ive only ever fed one dog twice just to see.and i found it a waste to be honest.

    All the best.
     
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  15. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    I feed around 6am before work (Orijen kibble, canned pumpkin and a piece of raw meat). We go walk/drag chains around 7:30pm for a good hour feed again the same thing at around 9:00-9:30 pm. If he has a pull competition coming up I add creatine,glutamine,raw honey and ginseng with a little water to the evening meal. If I am doing something that you guys feel is wrong feel free to speak up! My goal is to get asked to go to the A.P.A weight pull championships this year and I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  16. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    There is no right or wrong. Its more whatever works for you and your animals. I feed once a day simply because it keeps my dogs quiet until 4:30 or 5ish before they start barking and carring on. I'm not home during the day to tell them to STFU and I don't want them bothering my neighbors in any way. If I fed in the morning they become active shortly after eating and will carry on barking and shit throughout the day.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  17. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    I understand what your saying. But from your knowledgeable point of view can you see any faults in what I am doing???
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  18. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Not really. I'm not really all that knowledgeable on feeding the WP dog. Never did it and don't really know anyone personally who does it either to even ask. It's eaiser IMO to be able to actually look at the dog and it's dung to get a better idea of how good I'm feeding. Things like their eyes, skin, coat and energy level are really good indicators of how good one is feeding. Eyes should be clear and bright, skin should be soft and not flaky and the fur should look shiny like you just greased the dog up, it's shit should be formed and semi firm. I'm sure you probably already know all that.

    I know better how to feed and work the long distance sprinter more so than I do the power lifter. If I was trying to compete though in WP, I think I would do more than just chain dragging and hand walking as a routine. Again though, I don't know much about building strenght through muscle mass gain so I don't want to act like I know because I really don't.

    I myself would definitely be adding resistance bands or bungees to my work outs as I would think you would want explosive type immediate power with WP. I would also use a mill too because even though your not necessarily in need of 2 hour lungs for a pull you need good circulation of oxygen to feed their muscles to function effectively while being stressed to fatigue and the more mass the dog has the more O2 it needs to allow those muscle to work effectively.

    That's all just theory though so take it with a grain of salt.

    I've never really been a conditioning guru. Lol it's actually an area I loathe doing. I know pretty well how to condition one for hunting but WP is a whole different world with conditioning. I definitely though would have a track built in my yard or basement and it would be used in the routine if that was something I did competitively.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  19. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Premium Member Premium Member

    You need a strong dog but need a decent amount of cardio as well. When all the weaker dogs are done most times its just me and another dog left (usually its us against the same American bull dog but he is two weight classes up), They pull then we pull and keep going up in weight until one don't cross the 16' line. Sometimes you only get a couple minutes between pulls. One pull we almost had him good my dog fell 6'' short of the line pulling 1950lbs on a rubber air tire cart on carpet with rubber flooring underneath the american bulldog couldn't even get the cart going it was awesome everyone in the building was cheering and screaming for my stubby little dog! everyone was routing for him! It was a shame he stopped 6'' short and couldn't get it going again. We won pound for pound I just wanted to complete a pull the bigger dog couldn't move the owner of the other dog is a weight pull club owner.
     
    Soze the killer and AGK like this.
  20. If youve got the time...try give him a full raw diet.
    full raw.all the way.

    I belive you will notice a diffrence.
    also,any game has a high amount of createne in it.not just deer.but deer are meant to be higher up on the stuff..but im pretty sure all game has it.its common belife Pheasents do.

    Try him raw mate.
    and if you do....please get back to me and let me know what think..
    even if its months away..just send a pm.

    All the best mate.
    good luck in that weight pull!!!
     

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