Really Just an Amstaff?

I just wanted to continue the discussion from this thread without hijacking it:

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showpost.php?p=432413&postcount=59

So what do you think of similar lines like the Boogieman dogs? http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=23043 Would you call that amstaff too? They're not bred for or used in the []. They're show dogs just like Victorino Rebel's Red Ace. But I still wouldn't knock those dogs by calling them amstaffs. Especially when A LOT of the people on this site have petbulls or dogs without peds that are referred to as APBT here. All that stuff about "paper doesn't make the dog" and "good dogs are where you find them" is bullshit if when you do see a ped thats no good you can immediately write off the dog without a proper look. There have been some winners out of curs, winners off of KC show dogs, and winners of unknown ancestry. But there have probably been far more "gamebred" curs than anything.

I agree these dogs aren't comparable to quality gamebred bulldogs, but the dogs from lines like Boogieman and Roki-Reds are still in a completely different league than Amstaffs. Many are performance-bred and tested in weightpull. They're not the fat blocky dogs you see in the AKC bred without any regard to drive, athleticism, or function.

 

Ok, well lemme put it like this all AKC,UKC and ADBA dogs are really the same breed but what would defines the dog as an American "Pit" bull Terrier is just that the "pit" all are bred down from the same dogs from 200 years ago so pretty much if u have close dogs bred down from [] dogs people will say yea thats an APBT and dogs bred for the show ring are am staffs the only dog in these registries that this does not apply to is the american bully breed those are mutts as we all know

 

do not forget that you can duel register dogs....

 

thats a damn good looking dog right there, the fact that people call that an amstaff really just confuses me even more. When i think amstaff i think of the ukc dogs. A dog of medium build, with really no definition. Medium,bulky,square. That dog you posted is FAR from what those amstaffs look like. but i guess at the end of the day looks has nothing to do with the dog, but only performance.

 

i agree with agame, idc what papers say...

 

if you dont game test fancy adba stock than to me they are no better than amstaffs, just pets

 

so if I've got a sbt stested in the [] bred from sbt tested in the [] this make's them pbt:rolleyes: no they are still sbt's.[] is against the law so are you saying you [] dogs on a forum I know this is a pbt forum some pbt owner on here make me saying their dogs are game or game bred:eek:. like I said it's against the law to [] and saying there are no good sbt or amstaffs do you think people are daft enough to come on here and tell the world they are[] their sbt:rolleyes:

 

MFERN004... ARE U SERIOUS...??? writin off a dog just cuz the papers arent "all dat" is BS.. i own a few that papers arent shit but they damn sho cant read and made me very proud..They are 100% BULLDOGS.. and i think alot of your gamebred curs come from the fact that people just breedin from wat papers say...

 

I agree. good point. People breed pretty papers and think they have great dogs, thats not always the case. In my opinion papers are just a guideline, but dont make a dog. Just because i dont know the ancestory of my dog doesnt mean he cant turn out to be a great dog, and it also doesnt automatically make him a staff.

 

Jelet agame geezus and rhumble are all on point.
You can register your amstaff as an apbt if you go to a different registry. Does that make it an apbt?
If it aint bred for the pit it aint a pit. That is what differentiates the 2 breeds, the purposes they are bred for. Simple as that.
I just don't get what people don't understand? Only staff owners will try to convince themselves their staffs are apbts.. Lol I see people run around with peddled mutts (like am bull, dogo, french mastiff etc crosses) saying they are apbt.

There are 3 groups of people.
1, the people that think anything that remotely resembles a text book apbt is an apbt, even if its a doberman mastiff cross lol..
2, the people that realize that those mutts aren't real apbts, go lookiin on the web and find some "dual registered adba ukc" dogs. Since the pedigrees say apbt they must be. The breeders believe as the buyers do, that they own and breed the best apbt stock available. Grch this ch that, uwp this blabla that. Most of those people believe the fighting apbt doesn't exist anymore. I'm pretty sure they are publically tested a few places outside of America. The real apbt still exists, those people are breeding imposters that can't handle the apbts job. They won't believe their dogs are being bred to be far lesser than apbts of old when it comes to work. They really do think they are doing right by the apbt, when really they are only doing right by the amstaff, the non boxing showstock of apbts.
3, those that know what's rele good

@JTL if you hung the papers right than yes the dog would be an apbt... How the hell Do you think American anything came to exist? Look at your dogs peds, half of the dogs they are based off of are dogs with to real papers or background. For all you know they are sbt or other breeds. what differes the apbt from a sbt is an apbt has only one defining quality or one requirement to meet the standard. the apbt was built off of other breeds, some of the lines have neVer been crossed, essentially still having seperate breeds within the apbt. This is also why blood doesn't make it an apbt, which is why an amstaff doesn't just get a pass just for coming from the same stock.
On that not @dogman, of course you can find great dogs anywhere. But you can swim in a bathtub and shit in a pool aswell. Why buy/find 500 dogs to find 1 good one when There's proven stock to improve apon.

And the reason for a lot of gamebred curs, a lot more "dogmen" thatt don't know how to pick their breedings.

 

AmStaff or Pit? - Pit Bull Forums
I only read to page 2,,,

 

nice nah.uhh

heres a link from that one you posted to read that veigas read this to since u get confused

Pit Bull Forums - View Single Post - AmStaff or Pit?

 

Lol, i read and read and read, and ill still be confused at the end of the day. In my opinion a pitbull doesnt have to be GAME for it to be called a pitbull. Because you can have 2 GAME dogs, and their litter will not all be game. Does that make the litter Am Staffs? i dont think so. If someone comes and tells me otherwise, i will just be confused to the point where i wont care anymore lolol.

 

the lineage is the reason for calling them an amstaff. as people have said before the past 80 years or so they have been seperated from breeding and therefore the genes are split. the amstaffs are bred to be pretty looking not for working. the apbt is a working dog. and if you read the link i posted and the one that nah.uhh posted mabe youll get a better understanding.

 

An Amstaff could be game ass hell, that doesn't change the fact that he's an Amstaff though and there is nothing wrong with that. I'll feed an Amstaff that can get down with the best of them. But i'll call him just what he is, a great Amstaff. Just like the papers do not make the dog, either does the name APBT. If the dog can get down he can get down, the name and background don't mean nothing as far as him individually. You may have some questions and decisions you have to make as far as breeding goes, but as far as performance... who gives a shit. If your dog performs, he performs!

And if my dog had some amstaff blood in him, i would be proud as long as he's a good dog himself, cuz that unique blend made him what he is. But as far as the name, pitbull... PIT is the keyword, and unless your dog is coming from dogs that compete in it then i don't believe him to be a pitbull by nature. but who gives a shit, it aint nothin in a name.

 

They are show/performance[but not proven game line performance dogs] dogs point blank period

 

It only takes a couple of generations for a gamebred line to degenerate into something completely different. At gun point I would feed dogs down from boogieman before an amstaff, but under my free will I would feed neither. A beagle a few years ago won the Westminster dog show. I would bet dollars to donuts that pretty little thing would not chase a rabbit, but it is still called a beagle. I personaly despise show ch and grchs because they add to the confusion when a beginner is looking for a dog. That said when the breed is banned they won't care if the dog is show or go.

 

you brought up something that i wonder about alot. When i first joined i thought all the ch and grch i hear about are, well you know, champions for their original purpose. i didnt know that ch and grch meant in shows aswell. it really does add to the confusion.

 

yes its for boyh and it counts for everything from, weight pull , show ring , the pit and working trials.

 

Ah i see. it can be confusing. So being a ch or grch doesnt always mean that dog is a game dog right?