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Stafford and Pitbull

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by matty, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. shortbedder

    shortbedder Big Dog

    there talking not show dogs
  2. sunbeam

    sunbeam CH Dog

    i have lots of photos of quality apbt's that could be mistaken for staffords, one that springs to mind straight away is S & W Gr Ch Badger ROM, i have numerous pics of him taken when in ireland and he could pass as a stafford any day in all of em.
  3. metal6501

    metal6501 Pup

    could you post some pics of him sunbeam thanks:)
  4. sunbeam

    sunbeam CH Dog

    no, sorry.i told his owner i wouldn't
  5. KBK

    KBK Big Dog

    Ye herding, that would be a laugh........not for the sheep though i'm guessing
  6. dannyboy

    dannyboy Big Dog

    Any examples of apbt`s that could be mistaken for staffs would be great ;)
  7. jack the lad

    jack the lad Big Dog

    All these pit's that look like staff's are in the usa Wright:rolleyes:;) we would not like the dda to start looking at staff's and isbt:dogkiss: now would we.:(
  8. JanneM

    JanneM Big Dog

    We know now that working staffords and working pitbulls have similar traits in their looks. They may (or may not) have some similarities and could be mistaken as one or the other.

    How about their temperament?
    Are working staffords bred the same way and throw the same temperament with apbt?
    I mean the are game and all but is the HA as low on % as with working apbt?
    Where are the true working staffords still bred? Europe? STates? Some where else?

    I've been reading about apbt for some years now and trough game-dog.com I've learned that not all staffords look like foot rests and are only show dogs. REading about Staffords is very interresting and I believe owning one would be so too.
  9. the best dog is a world is pitbull
  10. OnTheRocks

    OnTheRocks Moderator

    Those that are eager students of gamedogs and their history, knows the fact that something happened with the APBT during the 1950´s and 1960´s. In a lot of the lines that came up then, the phenoype etc changed. You got bigger and bader dogs (take the Eli blood as an example). This is a fact that is supported both by reading articles written by those who where there, and comparing pictures of the dogs from the early 20th century with pictures of the later half of the 20th century. My impression is that many working Staffords is more similuar to what the APBT used to be prior to the 1960´s, they simply did not go trough this evolutionary step for obvious reassons. Compare many of the pictures of dogs from back then with modern working type Staffords and you will see the reasemblance.

    The temprament often seems to be a bit more "terrier" than the APBTs, but again different individuals and different lines have different mentality. When it comes to percentage I would say that it is lower than well kept APBT lines, but supricingly high compared to the small genepool. When it comes to breeding, it is a European thing. There are a few quality breeders located in several EU countries. But they are not all that easy to come by. You need to dig trough the mud first, and it would be very easy for someone to end up getting third rate dogs from fantasy-breeders.

    IRONHIDE Big Dog

    the funny thing is most people on this board wouldnt mistake maday for a game dog either they'd be wrong lol......

    IRONHIDE Big Dog

    i am referring to size and appearance only...
  13. JanneM

    JanneM Big Dog

    Thank you. Good post.

    I've noticed that dogs of today tend to be bigger than the dogs of yeasteryears. However there was some big dogs on their time. Eaven Colby had some bigger bulldogs. But I believe generally the dogs where a bit smaller then.
    But Staffords being developed in Europe and pitbulls being bred in States have seperated the breeds eaven further away from each others. I have found that working staffords are interresting little dogs and would like to look more into them too. SBT and APBT history goes hand in hand and if I'm right there has been some mixing in the history with these two breeds and eaven mached against each other some times.

    Can enyone tell where is the well bred working staffords registered today? KC? Or are KC Staffords just show dogs?
  14. culabula

    culabula Big Dog

    There were some game badger trial K.C lines(cuilleog prefix is one) that probably are being bred for their original purpose.Im not sure about the others psycho/stormer descendants.Ed reid registered them in the interconinental K.C..Maybe some have been paper hung with k.c peds (i dont know)
  15. blackbisquit

    blackbisquit Banned

    i have staffords they are more better to hunt than pitbulls than you can say you got shitase pitbullls :D thats treu bud you can allso say you got staff bulls that rocks :D

    for me staff bull if you have good one like my boy spike i will pay more than 10000 dollars to buy him ride away!!!!!!!!

    to keep the breed togheter it can be hot as hell :D:D:D:D

    staff bullys can be grazy little fire crackers :) and they get mad for nothing :)

    you gotta love the staff bullys!!!!!:D
  16. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    the game dogs of today are no bigger than the game dogs of yester year period....any one who says otherwise is a joker with partial understanding of game dog history....their is but one dog and one dog only ...the game dog PROVEN......do you think that when joe mallen chased blood in ireland ,he was looking for an irish stafford to bred to his english staffords..?.............do you think when colby bred the galtie dog he was creating a new breed..?....do you believe the dublin red dogs imported into the states were used to create a new breed.....?please where is the TRUE understanding...????????...stop chasing paper..and start working with PROVEN dogs.....the understanding of breeding has never been greater....the word GAMENESS has never been used as much as today....yet 99% of all dogs produced are rank curs why????............breed registrys and money.sbt apbt, isbt, ast,...........BULLSHIT!!!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
  17. OnTheRocks

    OnTheRocks Moderator

    I am not primariarly talking about size, even tough that too is a factor to consider. I am talking about the complete package, the phenotype, character, mentality size and build. If you look into pictures of Pit Bulls of the early 1900´s you will perhaps notice that they to a great extent reassemble the looks of many modern type working Staffords.

    Its a very wellknown fact that something happened in the US during the 1950-1960´s. Perhaps dogs where bred so hard that a general boost came naturally. But some people have even speculated in crossings with foreign breeds and secret bloodlines, now I dont give much for the later speculations. But it is shows that something remarkable happened and that lots of people have speculated over what really went down. What I am saying is that the Staffords did not go trough this step on the ladder and therefor reminds a lot more of the original dogs of the early 1900´s.

    I dont know if the fact that they where in different continents is the biggest issue. The Staffords where bred for a totally different purpose in Ireland and the UK. Up until the 1960´s they where almost only used for badgers, when badger drawings where outlowed the focus shifted to the same purpose as the american dogs. But that was only really big up until the end of the 1970´s when lots of people understood that they could just as well import dogs from the states that had been bred harder for the purpose, and therefor gain advantage. Some serious Irish folks have been quoted tough that they regret leaving the staffords, because if they would have stuck to the dogs and bred them intensively they would have developed too.

    The really good staffords still exists and can compete, but they are not all that many anymore and most people breed for fantasy and myths and therefor degenerate the dogs for each breeding instead of evolving them.

    Due to DDA etc many working types are registered with KC papers that really sais nothing about the true breedings behind the dogs. Most of the dogs advertised with Psycho etc in the pedigree is nothing but watered down junk. This situation complicates things, and if one is new its very hard to find the real stuff. I know for a fact that in some regions very wellbred dogs are sold as pets to unsuspecting people! Because this is regarded safer than selling to the wannabees that just breed the dog as soon as possible and peddle the offspring off on the pedigree.
  18. PERRO

    PERRO Big Dog

    May it's just me but I'm sorry I don't see the similarities. The front and hind legs are completely different and look at the necks. The first picture the neck is short.
  19. JanneM

    JanneM Big Dog

    Thanks OnTheRocks. Very good read.
  20. Burger

    Burger Pup

    A staff is a pitbull, they are the same F-In dog. The only thing your arguing about here is confirmation, I could fluke out and get an AKC dog that somehow grows up to have the body style and confirmation of what the ADBA calls for in their APBT judging criteria, and how, well genetics go way beyond what most forum writers can even fathom. At the end of the day confirmation is the only thing most people are doing to determine what is and isn't a pitbull.... I hate to break it to you, but even those AKC hippos are still considered a pitbull, and if one was game tested and had that drive to keep going despite exhaustion, what would most of you say?

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