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The great pup price debate.

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by oldguy, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Very true.

    If you spend a ton of money on a dog and the dog does not work out but the friendship does, not to get all sappy, but that is money well spent.

    And if you factor in 'the good times' the price would go down.

    We once drove from NC to just about the Florida Keys. Got two pups off J. Rod's Midnight Jr to a Tant bred RBJ female. Two gorgeous black pups, male and a female. As they grew the features changed. Big fat tail at the base. Course hair. Webbed feet. The terrible experience was doubled down as the pup we left behind grew up to win two.

    For the dogs, it was a total bust. The trip was as good a time as I have had in the dogs. A story we just re-hashed the other day.

    I laid out of work two days, hotels food and gas and we spent a chunk for dogs that were 1/4 Labrador Retriever.

    But we had a great time. The dogs were not worth shit but the stories have lasted.


    david63 likes this.
  2. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    You said "don't sell" but then admitted you sold dogs too. Hmmm. So, don't sell? Or don't sell that many? lol
  3. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    The man who sells 3-5 dogs is no different that the man who sells 30-50. You're both selling dogs.
  4. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    As much as you're willing to pay. I might drop 1.5-2K USD on a dog if I could observe and evaluate the litter in person, see the sire/dam, get a good sense of the breeder's objective, and get a reasonable health guarantee. Friend of mine dropped 4K with shipping on a European import. But he knew the kennel he was dealing with, and I guess he's happy.
  5. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am border line there.

    I agree the true definition would be 'if you sell dogs, you sell dogs and then number of dogs would not factor.

    I have sold a few in 30 plus years but I would be quick to say "I don't sell dogs" which would technically not be true.

    For me, my issue with selling dogs is when the operation moves from selling a couple-three puppies to a commercial application. Where as the dogs become a source of income.

    The that rolls right into the guys that brokers dogs. Buy cheap sell high as if they were a stock being traded on wall street. I was in a bind and I sold a dog to a guy who did a lot of dogs and I thought he would take him down that road. Some years later I find that he sold the dog for just about triple as soon as I left the parking lot when he paid me.

    I guess my next post should thanking everyone on the board for the 'online therapy session'. I think my biggest problem is that I am simply cheap. Then I hide the fact with vices for what other people are doing.

    I see the value in some of the higher priced dogs based on who got them there, the dogs and the owner, and the pedigree behind them. I simply can't force myself to get up off the cash for a bulldog.


  6. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    Don't get me wrong, Slim, I'm with you 110%. Me personally, I don't like selling dogs. But the man that sells a few dogs is still selling dogs.

    Recently my yard started to take a slight turn and I had to make a few spots available for younger dogs. Instead of giving 2 dogs away that I had a couple years invested into, I decided to "sell" them to a good friend. For pennies compared to what I have into them but there will be money handed over for the dogs so at the end of the day they're being sold.

    I could give them away or put them down but they have plenty of potential and I felt like getting some of my money back. Having fed these dogs and taken great care of them for a couple years I'm losing money but it's still a dog sale. Am I a peddler like somebody who breeds and sells pups for profit? I don't think so. But I can't say I don't sell dogs. JMO.
    Mr.Revolution likes this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well said.

    I guess it is the interpretation of 'selling dogs' as well all the subjective ways we see the process.

    When I had Filas way back when the market was a smaller but there were always more people wanting puppies than puppies available. The capitalism soon took hold. If you think bulldog people shit on one anther to make sale you should try the 'show' circuit. Cut throat suggests a knife but it is cut throat with a bush ax. LOL

  8. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    I’m with Slim, again. I can see SOME folks charging what they charge. They put the work in, you reap what you sow. Buyin dogs,then feeding and breeding them ain’t enough for me to drop vehicle money on a dog. By vehicle I mean motorcycle too. If there is a motorbike for 2k or some pups, I ain’t lookin at the pups. The dogs are a HOBBY for me, not a HABIT.

    THIS IS NOT MEANT FOR ANYONE IN PARTICULAR AND I AM WELL AWARE ADULTS CAN DO AS THEY PLEASE WITH THIER MONEY! That being said, a lot of folks that have paid high pup prices are just buying the name anyway. If you not doin anything but buyin and breeding dogs, or just breeding to “preserve” a bloodline, you wastin time and money imo.
  9. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    Treez you sold a dog or 2 to a friend to get a lil back on what you spent. Ain’t shit wrong wit that. It sounded like you would have kept them if you needed them, but you didn’t. If your buddy gets good use out the dogs, even better!
    treezpitz likes this.
  10. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    Good discussion, yall. We're all in the same boat as far as prices goes it sounds like lol. I'm not paying crazy money for no stinking pup and I surely wouldn't try to charge that either lol. My personal limit would be 1k. And I would REALLY have to want that pup to pay that price. Having said that, I don't NEED to buy pups so my limit isn't as high as some people.

    Another variable to consider is what all went into the process. If somebody is using frozen semen from years ago and has been paying storage fees for said semen, I would think his higher price for pups is justified. ... Just an example I thought of.

    I have 2 weeks old pups now off a old dog that was considered sterile and useless as far as breeding goes. I stuck with it and fed him supplements for 2 years, checked his semen regularly, kept breeding him and now I have some pups off of him thanks to my determination. It doesn't matter to me what somebody else thinks my pups "are worth", I know what went into getting them here. That's just another personal example that I can speak on.

    Oh yea, Cnote, he will definitely get some good use of the dogs for sure.
    AGK, c_note and Soze the killer like this.
  11. What made you decide on the Fillas as a gard Slim?
    did you try them first and liked them and kept going,or did you try other breeds in your quest that was not to your standards?

    i really dont no much about them.ive actully never seen one in the flesh.
    They look formidible,and ive always wonderd about them..
    They are a real working mastiff and compere them to say a Bullmastiff or Neo or Boxer or any most other Mastiff breeds,its easy to spot that they are funchonl dogs comperd to the above...
    they remind me of the ones in Africa-the Boerbol...another funchonl real working Mastiff.
    i think the both breeds are a worthy debate..

    Sorry to get of topic.
    the price thing is killing me.lol
  12. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    1k for me too Treez. The dog off frozen would/should be more. That’s something that someone saved for a special circumstance. Plus it might possibly be the last chance you can get ANYTHING from that past dog
    david63 and treezpitz like this.
  13. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I went to a hog hunt and there was a guy from Texas that had two of them. They were big. bulky but surprisingly agile and athletic.

    I tracked down the lady that owned the parents of those dogs and she had recently sold the female. I contacted the guy and bought one off the next litter off her. I bought the female and I was completely satisfied with her.

    She was big and fast and could move like a cat. I trained her to track shot deer and even put her in a hog pen. She was exceptional.

    Unfortunately that click is all about show type qualities. Her ear set was high and her muzzle length was suspect, as well as her skull depth. She did not fit their bill. Me being the dumbass I am I questioned the working ability of the heirarchy's 'working dogs'. I was not a popular guy. My buddy and I made a couple of breedings amongst ourselves but could not replicate nor get what I started with.

    In time the dogs aged and died and I did not replace them.

    Perfect family guardian but a shit load of liability as they are high strung when in defensive drive. And once they are geeked up they are not great thinkers. If you and I were watching a game and we gave each other a high five or a fist bump that is grounds for an all out attack. Huge liability.

  14. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Lol well since we're all being so honest here,

    I sell dogs plain and simple. Ain't ashamed to say it either lol. It's not my bread and butter and just because you got what I ask price wise for a pup don't mean I'll sell you one. I'm pretty strict as to who I will make a deal with when it comes to my dogs.

    Three things people who actually know me or have dealt with me will tell you about me,

    1. I'm stingie AF with my dogs
    2. Every dog here is given A-1 care, everyday, no exceptions. They get my time if I am not at work or asleep.
    3. I'm as honest as they come in these dogs.

    Anyone who has cared for multiple dogs and multiple litters a year knows what kind of time and money goes into that. To do it right I should say, meaning above and beyond care of each individual in your care. I certainly aint just going to give it away for free to any ol person that wants one. Lmao as soon as I do, someone's putting dicks in a 9 month old bitch from me at my expense and off my name. The measly price I take for my pups gives me piece of mind that the dog will potentially be well cared for throughout it's life as it's an investment to the buyer. Not that that's always the case since people do what they want reguardless of what they tell you but it's worked pretty well for me over the years so far.

    Money has never been a motivator for me in reference to the dogs, otherwise very few would be able to afford a pup from me because with what I give of myself to the dogs, I'd want your first born as payment. I always go far more backwards than I do forward as far as a profit margin goes. If you have dogs just to feed some dogs and give them away to everyone then more power to you but that has never been me nor will it ever be. There aint no money in breeding dogs, well, this breed anyway. However, My dogs pay for their own way here. Money isn't a luxury for me and feeding a bunch of mutts isn't my idea of what I'd like to go broke from while never being able to leave my yard my entire adult life for more than 30 hours because of the care they need daily. Got way more important things to worry about going broke from like a college education for my kid in 3 years or just basic survival anymore.. They got to buy their own dog food it's that simple.

    I do keep from every litter, whether here or placed with good friends in my group (if you want to call it that) 2 to 3 pups a litter will get certainly get sold though.

    The ones that are placed are almost always a strategic move on my part. A seed planted now that hopefully will come to friut later on down the road for me. Most have kept their word over the years when I've done this and it has worked out for me so I continue to do it pretty much out of every litter produced.

    My dogs pay for their own needs, period. Otherwise I could never keep what I keep and justify spending money on a so-called hobby when I struggle with my own finances weekly.

    Your paying for my sacrificed time, my blood, sweat, tears and at one point in time, my denial of freedom from being raided. Also the care that is involved in this yard daily and for the next kennel, bag of food, vaccine, vet visit etc. that they'll need. I fork it over first then they eventually pay me back. Money always goes back into them, not my needs. The few pups I do sell a year rarely fully pays for what they need day to day and year to year but it totally offsets what I have to put in financially so it works for me. Until you throw in my time....... Then, there is no offsetting that.

    I used to get bothered easily even angry if someone called me a peddler, then I grew up. What someone thinks of me, whether they know me or not, isn't ever a thought in my head these days. Lmao. I've given pups for free and kept for myself far more than I've ever sold. Even being that I sell pups, these mutts here will still punch a time clock in good fashion. They will compete competitively in any venue they are used for and at the end of the day, if your dogs aren't making some kind of noise at something, you don't last very long in this breed of dog as word spreads like wildfire in the APBT world so someone must like them other than me lol.

    I turn down at least 15 people any given week of the year that want a pup/prospect/adult from here. It's a daily annoyance for me to respond. If money was my motivator in the dogs, I don't feel I would really have to work a job since I could easily just sell dogs all day. My ethics and morals won't allow that though and I hate dealing with people on most any level, especially when money is involved so I would never breed just to turn a profit. I also use or have used the same shit I'm selling so like Disco said to me when he came and got his 2 pups a few months ago, getting a pup from me is getting my entire breeding program, and it's true.

    I'll be damned if I just give that away. No one ever gave it to me so why would I? I had to pay for my original stock so it's really no different even though I'm a nice enough guy that those people I have paid for dogs from, have dogs from me that were simply gifts because I liked them and was appreciative that they let me get what I wanted. Hell, West has 3 that I've given him, BBD had 1 but that's only because he retired before I really started breeding a family here out of his dogs or he would probably have more too from me.

    For most of the rest of the massses though, I trust people to do right with these dogs about as far as I can throw them. :))

    I sell them but I also stand behind them fully. The good and the bad. ;)
  15. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I agree with treez too, don't matter if you sell 5 or 500, if you take money for dogs or have, you sell or sold dogs. Even when taking a loss or making a gain. Nothing is inherently wrong with that. This is the only breed of dog that I know of that people look down on them being sold yet we've all bought them lmao.

    This and my other post is not towards anyone here or any particular person in general just bored and making long winded chit chat. I've had a bit of anxiety all day today and it makes me pretty chatty at times.

    If you sell dogs as a means to live or sole purpose being profit, it will show in your dogs, the quality of them, sooner than later. Less consideration will go into your breeding stock as numbers is the more important factor in that thought process. More dogs = more $$$. Other things then will easily become over looked as well, temperament, structure, drive etc.

    When you breed for yourself as in making your own dogs better generation after generation by selectively breeding the ones that you think will best complement what the other is lacking you can't afford to look the other way on bad traits as it will directly affect you negatively in the short term and even more so in the long run. In turn that means a lot more culling, a lot more time and money etc.

    Lol now if your just breeding to breed and sell dogs and your building your dogs up to be something they aren't to make a sale then those types probably shouldn't be involved in these dogs or any dogs and will more than likely fizzle out in the dog world just as fast as they came into it.

    For some people it's a passion, others it's financial, some it's a hobby others it's a way of life etc.. I can't really talk ill on any of them as I believe in both freedom and capitalism so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to do so.

    What I can do though is be selective in what I myself will purchase. I like the way Chicos, Evos, Garners etc. dogs are bred, I won't be running out and buying one any time soon though as I too have a limit on the price I myself would pay for a pup.

    I wouldn't pay 2 grand for a pup off 2 grand champions. To big of a gamble for me. I would however take that 2 grand and go buy a ready to go adult that has already been in the woods working or use it to pay a stud fee and have a whole litter to work with instead of a single pup. If they can do it though, more power to them.
  16. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    :)) @ well since we're all being so honest here... LOL
    slim12, AGK and stickler like this.
  17. English is not my native language so I could have been misunderstood
    when I replied I had just finished the part where someone wrote that a sellers get the tough end of the stick because the buyers make mistakes to

    going further into your remark
    I think there is a difference between selling ,I do believe so
    if a dogman sells a few because people ask and than says give me what they cost is that selling?
    I recently sold one of my last dogs for a good bottle of rum
    I never ran ads dogs for sale or dogs at stud infact I ran an add for years that stated
    " have weights , will travel, no pups for sale no dogs at stud"

    I guess its just the way one wants to see it

    going back to the old question from @oldguy if the pups warranted that price I would say if one of the parents has shown to be a solid producer coming from solid performing bloodlines I reckon a 1000 for a pup is ok
    treezpitz and c_note like this.
  18. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I remember back in like 2004 or 05 I sold 2 pups to fatdog of TexasExpress for $800. 1 male and 1 female off M.I.A x Redrum. Raven came up to get them to transport them for me to Tx. He didn't even get out of my city before the buyer had an ad up for the female and sold on pedsonline for $1000. I thought that was shady AF. I remember being fairly angry about it and voiced it to the guy. Lol never heard from him again which was fortunate as I would never deal with him again after something like that. I heard a few years later that he got into the bullies which is probably a better breed for scalping people on the price of a pup. After that I set my price to what it still is today.

    It always boggled my mind how people expect a 500$ APBT pup from a working line of dog yet you couldn't even get a Labrador from people who work them for that or most any other breed short of beagles.

    Most into these dogs will agree they are a better dog than most any other breed and more multi useful yet feel they should be 300 dollar dogs. Lol I could never really wrap my mind around that thought process.
    treezpitz, c_note, SMD760 and 2 others like this.
  19. XLR8

    XLR8 Big Dog

    So true AGK. A lot of people are like that, not just in dogs either. They expect to get something for nothing. What that buyer did to you was totally disrespectful man. If you want something (anything) that someone else has or owns then you should be willing to pay his (or her) price, whatever that may be. whether or not you think it's a fair price or not is irrelevant.
    david63 and AGK like this.
  20. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    I agree AGK. The days of a 3-400$ pup are gone. I just “hate” that EVERYBODY wants a band for a pup

    Does that make me a hater? Lol

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