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The great pup price debate.

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by oldguy, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Since we are debating (and props to the crowd as by now on most other forums/boards someone's mom would be wearing combat boots by now via name calling and mudslinging, LOL) I will use the same mindset when I agreed with TREEZ/AGK, if you sell 5 or 500, you sell dogs. Along those lines when you sell dogs the new owner has every right to do as he pleases, including re-selling the dog.

    I was in a financial bind. Hot water heater split and ruined some flooring in my house. The insurance company was dragging their feet and I needed the work done. I had a female ready to go with a date set. I opted to pay the forfeit and use my dog money as floor money. The opportunity presented itself and I sold her brother (kicked myself in the ass a thousand times). The guy that bought her is as well known as anyone in the dogs. He owned a dog that a large number in the fraternity say is one of the greatest of all time. I 'assumed' he would use my working dog. He sold the dog in the parking lot for nearly triple what he paid me with a few minutes of me driving off.

    He paid what I asked. I had no beef with it as we had no agreements in place nor did we have strings attached. Like it was said, people complain about selling but it takes two to tango and a buyer has to be a part of the equation. And once the buyer becomes the owner, if he chooses to be a seller, then so be it.

    And now I am on the end of that stick too. I sold a female for 1/2 price, maybe a 1/4 of her value when I got sick last year. The deal was a handshake...you get the female now, breed her to XXX dog and I get a puppy back (if I am healthy enough to do right by one, if not she is yours no questions asked, and I send the papers) From what I can tell the bitch has been bred twice. I have yet to see anything back and he has went ghost on the phone/boards. I have her papers but if you are sticking a guy on this kind of deal then hanging papers is a non-issue as well.

    1st time I had no stipulations. No beefs from me for him selling the dog, even selling it immediately. 2nd time, we had an agreement and it appears he has went another way. Totally different opinion on the two.

    And again, I have no problem with people selling dogs, for any amount they choose to sell them. I have acknowledged I am simply cheap when it comes to bulldogs. I have acknowledged that I am a big fan of one of the most well known commercial breeders, not begrudging him a bit. I'm cheap in a lot of things as well but in the bull dogs I just knew how high the bar was set and I never seen a correlation between high puppy price and Saturday night success. Maybe even deeper thinking, Saturday night success with a high priced puppy eases/removes the sting of the purchasing price. Not making it to Saturday night with a high priced puppy is like being stabbed in the ass with a hot fire poker.

    And I agree if I am spending I am spending on a grown dog that I can get to the show with or breed to XXX dog to start with a whole litter for the same amount. Once you do the math, it is four or five pups for the same price as one. It does not 'hurt near as bad' doing the right thing once you have divided by five or six.


    SMD760, XLR8, treezpitz and 2 others like this.
  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    To answer your question, NO!

    But unfortunately it means you and I are thinking alike and I would not put that on anyone. LOL

    treezpitz, c_note and AGK like this.
  3. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Na, makes you sensible like the rest of us. Pups are always a big gamble and a bigger expense. Having to raise it almost 2 years before being able to see what it is or isn't is an expensive time consuming long road. I'll pay a grand for a pup but I would have to really have to just have to have it in order to pay that.
    XLR8, treezpitz, slim12 and 1 other person like this.
  4. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I agree with "once they buy it it's theirs to do with as they please". Still wasn't too happy about it but it's just another reason I charge what I charge. That price tag puts my mind at easy that the new owner is going to do what they want with it reguardless of what they told me originally to get the pup from me in the first place. In a sense, it's me signing off on the pup for good. Lol Thankfully I'm a pretty likable person and most people I've dealt with over the years usually become friends of mine simply from their purchase of a pup and they stay in regular contact with me over the course of the dogs life. Then, when one turns out It's not abnormal for them to either let me breed back to the dog or I'm offered a pup or 2 off the dog as an added thanks. Not always, but more times than not.

    I tend to gift dogs to those who already run their own lines. Being as I'm focused on my own family I don't have the room to worry about crosses with them which is very important in the big scheme of things. If that dog grows up to be what they expected and wanted then those dogs will get bred to their stock. Therefore they are doing my outcrossing for me into various other families. It's win win for everyone involved. Then, when I need an out, I have plenty available without me personally having to keep and raise other various lines. Has worked pretty well over the years.

    I'm not surprised this thread has went smoothly as the only people left around here anymore that post are typically pretty respectful of others unless they are attacked first themselves. This topic wouldn't go so well over on peds which is funny as hell to me since that whole site of folks selling dogs. Lol.
    SMD760, XLR8, treezpitz and 4 others like this.
  5. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    With any working breed, young pups are a gamble, but odds for future success are increased with consistent breeding practices over time.

    The effort, care and medical attention you put into your dogs AGK, reputation, knowledge of the lines, experience…why not get utmost compensation? Nothing wrong with making money, it’s how businesses are sustained. Does not the higher price weed out at least some of the bullshit?
    XLR8, stickler and AGK like this.
  6. Higher price-least the dog will be worked.
    i no thats whats going on in your head so ill put it like this...
    idiot buys Five grand pup...
    do you really think idiot is gunna risk getting his five grand pup hurt-lol or even killed?
    if i bought a ferri ide be shit scared to scrach it never mind crash it.
    weres if a had a landrover ide ram any fucker of the road...get me?

    Idiot buys five grand pup and idiot spot picks wins to sell pups for the same...do the maths.at that price the dog game has gone out the widow mate..and its then the dog selling game...

    a working mans price or placed.
    a working mans price, for a working dog.

    Just my oppinion @GK1,,,,,,and in no way watsoever directed at any one in this debate..

    all the best folks and remember now, its no ones buissness what people pay or dont pay
    XLR8, david63, c_note and 1 other person like this.
  7. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    The price really isn't that high IMO. $750 for a pup I feel is a very reasonable working mans price. Hell, I make a shitty 36k a year and I can easily afford that if I want to spend it on a pup so it don't really weed out anyone. They always will try to low ball you still but I just tell them this ain't a dealership, the price is the price and since it's not my bread and butter in life I'll simply tell them it isn't happening and go right back down my list of people who have been waiting, some for years. I have no time frame that pups need to be gone from here since I can kennel them and it isn't much for me to care for them other than my time. The way I see it, the older it gets the more it's going to cost someone to get it from me. I really never have pups past 3 months old though as very few have ever complain about the price being excessively high. Most tell me it's too low. Hell, I don't even do a breeding unless I already have at least 3 people interested that I know will come through on their end when the time comes to transport. I won't even make deals until pups are born, healthy and at the minimum, 2 to 3 weeks old. I can't see taxing the shit out of someone on a pup that may or may not turn out. I know what a gamble it is so ethnically I can't see charging 1500+ for a pup when I myself would not pay that for a puppy.
  8. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Also keep in mind, 2 grand on a pup to a dopeboy aint shit where as 2 grand to me is far to big a risk to take. Working mans price depends on what kind of work the person does. 2 grand to me is a lot, 2 grand to a Dr isn't shit.
    SMD760, XLR8, treezpitz and 3 others like this.
  9. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    Correct, it's a difference if you own millions or just enough to survive. 5 grand to some is like 5 to me. lol And this is not good or bad, it is just what it is.
    Well, I heard that Chico only takes 2.5k just for a yard tour. lol
    XLR8, Soze the killer and AGK like this.
  10. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    7-750 is the sweet spot. I would/will/and do pay that for pups. I don’t blink at that price point
    SMD760, XLR8, treezpitz and 1 other person like this.
  11. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    5k is like $5 to you??? You on a different level than most of us here...
    Carolinacur, SMD760, XLR8 and 2 others like this.
  12. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    C'mon now, working man’s price is relative. Some tradesmen, small business owners earn much more than veteran lawyers, doctors even. 1.5K for AGK pups is reasonable imo; maybe more. The mass puppy producers are charging 2K - and I would not be confident a given pup dog is bred as advertised. Especially sold to an outsider with no connections.

    I don’t get this “turn out” concept. A long time breeder with intimate knowledge of his lines should have an idea by 8-9 weeks the general personality of each pup in the litter. For example companion/pet prospect; vs competitive sports prospect; vs police dog prospect. Prey drive, confidence, scrappiness are often manifested by 8 weeks, with some pup latching onto anything in front of them.

    Is this so-called pig chasing ability of the true APBT so difficult a trait to breed for consistently?
    stickler likes this.
  13. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    I just have to like @AGK for his open mind. He wants the best for himself and his customers/friends. It's not just about selling. It's much more.
    I bet he will give the right dog to you if he knows you and what you are looking for. Or he will say sorry, bro, this is not the right dog for you. Please, wait or let me ask around for the right dog. He is happy to hear about the happy dogs and owners. And he gets it back for good and can make all kind of deals with them 'good' people. A win win situation.

    If I buy dogs than I do not just buy a dog, I buy a history. A good one or a bad one. Or just one like many.
    Before I buy I need to know something and so I ask if I think it's worth a try.
    Last time it took me 4 years to get the ok and another 2 to get the dogs. The sire of the litter was born around the time of the first contact made.
    I was never asking for pups or dog-prices. I was just asking what's your philosophy ? LOL And I got a looooong answer ...
    And the value of this letter alone, to me, is hard to explain. But I call it my bible. lol
    Did a lot of talking and writing letters back and forth, and maybe 4 years later I got a short message that they believe this can be made for a long relationship.
    What a beautiful day. lol
    2 years later I just gave it a try and was expecting to get some ... well ... good game dogs.
    I got the full package, dna wise and pound for pound. The breeder took 1k for one dog and my word that I do not sell or peddle his stuff.
    People may call this luck, 'he' called it 'creation'.

    Like I said, sometimes it is more than just selling puppies. To get the best you have to love this shit.
    AGK likes this.
  14. And thers no way you can look at a litter of pups and tell witch ones will "turn out"...
    if that was the case wed all pick the best ones from the nest lol..therefor not having to spend up to 3 years to find out.
    david63 likes this.
  15. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    Well, I know what I have and also what other guys have. Horse breeder would be laughing at us talking about a 1k stud. And paying millions of dollar for a stud or whatever is just a hobby to them. They probably call you the poor guy if you only got 100 millions or so. Get my point ? I am the poor guy. lol
    c_note likes this.
  16. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    I would not try your bad eye and would always try to buy first. lol
    You get the best odds with picking the right litter first. When you got to that point just sit there and watch ... and wait for the sign. lol
  17. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

  18. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    Hell no. :D
    Just watching them puppies for hours every and each forking day gives you something to see for sure. You bred for a reason and then you watch them grow ...
    I am not saying what people can see is always 100 % perfect, but you can clearly see from where the wind is blowing.
    But I just love to watch them puppies. It's just a short time to watch ... The first weeks are the most important time for a dog.
    Can't you guys recognize a game dog when you see one ? :D

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