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... The Ultimate Bulldog Catalyst...

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by ELIAS'PISTOLA, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    The Staff Catalyst was something of the past and we have came to conclude it might not be the best Bulldog Catalyst...
    I think when a type of dog becomes bred for so long and becomes a breed that the gene pool limits itself to that breed,,, the smaller the pool the more deffects...
    We are lucky that our type of bulldogs have a vast amount of crosses as the base as the breed which allows for such longevity...
    Ther will come a time any anybreed where the pool is shallow and a catalyst is in dire need...

    So my question is,,, hypothetically speaking...
    WHAT BULLDOG CATALYST DO YOU CHOSE AND WHY???

    MY CHOICES...
    #1...I would go for a terrier of the fell type as the white terrier in both might linq fine...
    There are pleny patterbull crosses,,, but not many were selected by bulldog standards...
    I think with alot less work than most others,,, this would be the best and take the least amont of generations to do so...

    #2... A wild DINGO...
    I said it... A DINGO...
    Selected and culled naturally,,, very athlethic and smart with descent jowls and killer instinct...
    Documentary Dingo Wild Dog At War - YouTube

    The best bomb sniffers were developed in russia from dingos and owned by the country as seen on the national geographic science of dogs documentary,,, sorry I can find it complete but its worth a watch if you like dogs and breeding them...
    Terror Fighting Dogs - YouTube

    Another fine documentary worth the watch is pbs novas dogs decoded...
    This scientist turns foxes into dogs in less than ten years and six generations,,,
    This shows with selective breeding we can use a DINGO catalyst and it not take as long as we might think to get what we might be looking for...
    Domesticated Fox Experiment - YouTube
    Dmitry Belyaev and Fox Experiments - YouTube

    Both documentaries are on netflix if your interested...

    NOVA - DOGS AND MORE DOGS - Discovery Animals Wildlife (documentary) - YouTube
    not as good as the others but this one has something to offer as well...
    six thousand years ago,,, no one knew abow oxegon uptake and cooling the blood is what the say about the saluki at 27 minutes,,, good theories...

    WHATS YOUR BULLDOG CATALYST AND WHY...
     
  2. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Crazy up there EP. Are you saying that gamedogs right now are hitting a peak when it come to their breed so we need to add some other breed blood in order to improve certain traits that can take them higher
     
  3. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    African wild dog closet thing I seen to a game dog in the wild on tv and books of course.I'd start there. Try and keep the natural wind and endurance and jaws and teeth of the painted wolf while breeding back to the pit side
     
  4. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    I think it just a hypothetical question
     
  5. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    Or maybe some hunting hound that I'm sure has already been introduced to some lines anyway
     
  6. hwm

    hwm Big Dog

    A bulldog friend of mine had a bull terrior' the spuds McKenzie type. We got a lot of kicks out of that ugly thing. You could set your clock, she would quit in ten minutes to a bulldog, but go all out. You had to appreciate her attitude, if nothing else. Lol
     
  7. wicked13

    wicked13 Top Dog

    I would think maybe an old school molloser type breed maybe an old world type mastiff
     
  8. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    those Pat Patrick dogs are ugly and this and that but for some good dogs big too
     
  9. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    1. gotta agree with that. but....

    2. A dingo is pointless. while they've got immense cutters, can flip their heads like an owl, and are as flexible as a cat,can whip most dogs, and are indeed athletic, there are countless downsides. first off, dingoes are about as loyal as a prostitute. if you get into trouble, they will sit by and watch, and/or walk off uninterested. second, they will jump that pit wall like an illegal immigrant in a donald trump presidency. they will scuffle, but unless they cannot escape, of if they know they can win, they will not fight for long. third, sulimov dogs come from JACKALS not dingoes.





    truly better catalysts if ABSOLUTLEY necessary (excluding staffords)

    1. bull terriers
    there are some very game ones out there, they pretty much all have good mouth when bred right, and have good cutters. this cross has worked int the past countless times ( CH. FRISCO SPORT, CH. DAN, CH. STORMER, most komosinski line dogs.). it certainly had a huge impact on the apbt of yesteryear. these dogs are still used and tested in Russia, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, China, and if i'm not mistaken, the UK.

    2. bandogs
    there are some really good bandogs out there, why stray so far away from the APBT when you can stay so much closer to home? they have been matched in the past, and proabaly still are. nuff said. main downside will be huge dogs.

    3. blue heelers
    while they are nippy and mean as hell, they are also very smart. there as some killer heelers out the who will keep their grip with their guts hanging out of their bodies. there some downside to this, but i think it could be a good, fast, cross.


    and for more

    jadgterriers
    heide terriers
    pitter pats
    patterdale terriers
    shar pei
    chongqing
    top racing greyhounds
    bull arabs
    bullmastiffs
    tosa ken
    kai ken
    shiba (working line)
    adu bagong dogs
    american bulldogs



    and so on so forth....
     
  10. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    your right about the jackyls but really blue heelers??? now thats funny I dont CURR who you are...
     
  11. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    A better hound cross would be a CURR or CATT...
     
  12. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    say what you wish. some will lug real hard, unlike curs and catahoulas which almost invariably yelp and skip around. wombeyan cow dogs had a good few many years back. some of these dogs are gritty enough to keep fighting after rolling into fire. pick your lines and go from there. certainly a better cross than to a dingo which would require a damn lifetime to get close to correct. they've proven themselves.


    even still, why do we need such a thing as an outcross. these dogs are basically subway sandwiches in certain families, but out crossing to another line helps right? and why were staffs deemed inadequate? but dingoes are up for debate lol. hardly any pure dingoes left.
     
  13. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Now Ive heard of ther being two types of plotts,,,currs and catts...
    But never heard heelers were gritty,,, since you speak of excperience I will take you word...

    The english bull terrier is from a similar backdrop of white terrier and some say Walter Komsinski used some as a catalyst...
    I think the same about those as I do a modern staff,,, to far removed from any real work...

    The american bulldog and anyother mollaser have already been tried by those who thought bigger was better and as history prevails, the size thing never worked...
    But I am sure these crosses could work if thats what your looking for...

    Although a bit far fetched,,, The Dingo and Jackyl Catalyst could add something fierce...

    IF I lived in Australia,,, I would surley breed my bitch to a champion wild dingo...

    the question is hypothetical,,,But I dont think you have owned a single bulldog to evaluate the question,,, bluedoglover...
     
  14. Red Cemtre

    Red Cemtre Big Dog

    I have owned pure bred dingos and first gen crosses and I completely agree with bluedoglover. Dingos are human shy, lack loyalty and are completely untrustworthy. A pure bred will never be your friend, regardless and are a danger to anyone but the owner, his family at risk as well. They also lack the desire to fight or attack anything unless for food, they will run in every situation if they can. Cross bred they are better on the human front however most of the other negative dingo traits are still there. I'll put it this way, I never was able to keep a pure dingo safely, chain or not over 12 months of age without risking friends and family, they are wild like a wolf. I've only owned one cross bred that was worth anything, he was heeler x dingo and was a good cattle dog but he was shot for repeatedly attacking horses.

    The heeler cross has been very successful for cattle work, as bluedoglover has stated by the wombeyan stud but I think they would be unsuitable as pit dogs. Whilst the heeler is very smart and has a lot of guts and wind they don't have the aggression and hardness a pit dog would need, hence most pure heeler used on pigs will bay the large ones instead of hold, a sacrilegious trait in a bulldog. I am much more in favor of a bull terrier cross, plenty of fighting blood still around so less likely to damage the bulldog in fighting ability though regardless of what is used it would take a lot of breeding and plenty of culling
     
  15. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Thats what I was looking for,,, good response,,, read and share...
    The differnce in your dingos and say the dingos I am thinking of,,, would be generations of selective breeding towards the bulldog,,, hence the word catalyst...
    I dont think this would work overnight or the first handful of generations,,, but if they can turn s fox into a domisticated dog in ten years with selective breeding and no other genes,,, I am sure it can be done with these dogs if some whack job with to much time and enough know how was interested...

    Who would think some of the better sniffers would have a jackyl catalyst???

    I do think using anything wild would take alot longer than a domisticated breed to fuse properly,,, and dont think any fifty fifty cross is suffecient but multi generations of selectivity...

    The thing I like about the dingo is they are selected by nature and survive out of will and smarts with out human tampering...
    IMO,,, Our bulldogs are the most succesfully human enginered breed to be completeley oppisite of the wilddog,,, which might make for the right counter for eachother...

    I like the bull terrier idea,,, but a good friend and mentor that has had alot of different breeds and knowledge in them is currently presuing good english bull terriers
    working lines are far and few and those who do work them seem to go back to showlines and the working isnt no longer instilled in them...
    I got my first,,, fifth,,, eigth,,, etcc... bulldog from this man and trust his expertize,,, he currently has some stock of some european show champions that come from intermitten work lines,,, he got these dogs by the way of the juarez mexico border area and spend big bucks looking for something supreme...
    Just like all his other bulldog endevors whether dogos,,, renisance,,, lavender english bulldoges lol,,,etccc... we will see if the english bull terriers pan out pure...
    After all his endevors,,, he always comebacks to these tried and true cheap bulldogs as pricey others seem second hand...
     
  16. Red Cemtre

    Red Cemtre Big Dog

    Dingos are tough as nails I will give you that, having spent some time trapping them I've seen first hand the lengths they go to to survive. They also are the last animals to suffer in a drought and are able to survive with massive parasite loads, the amount of worms I've pulled out of the guts of some individuals is staggering. 5 lbs of worms in a 40 lb animal, unbelievable. To use them though like you said would take a lot of time and culling so it would take a nut job like you said willing to put in the effort. But then again, I'm sure plenty of us have been called nut jobs for the lengths we go to for our dogs.
    The bull terrier issue is an interesting one, I've had friends in very similar positions to your mentor EP find the same thing. If I had the money and the desire though, I would be looking in eastern europe/Russia or India where there seems to be bull terrier blood used relatively consistently in the pit.
     
  17. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Pakistan bully kutta,gull terr havent been touched since past 1800 some mixing very little but size is much bigger legal in that country to fight and bets can get super high. 5000 US for gamebred puppy. Uncle had one said the bite made him shiver when use to close mouth over a boar. On a hunt the dog got hold of medium size pig with one crunch in the back the big staightend out shit it self and died. Dog is 200 pounds plus, maybe gull terr is better
     
  18. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    If starting with a wild dog cross I'd go with the African wild dog over the dingo. And prob never a dingo
     
  19. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Another good read...
     
  20. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    that's genetically impossible. the two can not and will not breed.
     

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