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TRUTH Series-Its not the breed, its how you raise them myth

Discussion in 'Dog Blogs' started by Saiyagin, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    In this Truth series topic I am going to discuss the TRUTH about "Its not the breed its how you raise them", which was brought to my attention recently by Beatrixkiddo in another topic on this forum.

    This saying is used a lot by many A.R. activist and people that THINK (self proclaimed gurus on the breed LMAO) they know the real truth about pitbulls like most of the programming on that Animal channel show like the Dog Whisperer, Pitboss, and Pitbulls and Parolees etc....guess what they ARE all full of SHIT.

    You see its not determined by how you raise them but by the breed and that particular individual dog itself.

    If it was by how you raised them THEN there WOULDN'T be any accidents if that was the case BUT ITS NOT. This is one of the main reasons why the EXPERIENCED APBT fanciers cringe when they hear of a INEXPERIENCED person who has no knowledge of this type of breed of dog but wants to buy and own one, that is like a accident/disaster waiting to happen.

    Its also the reason WHY most of us on this site cant stress enough about people asking if its alright to take there APBT to a dog park. Majority of inexperienced people dont realize that even though your APBT might not start a fight , it WONT back down from a fight and will most surly try to finish it if the other dog tries to intimidate and dominate him. For example a big rottweiler that is a regular at a dog park gets along with all the other dogs ONLY because the other dogs submit to him, but when a game bred APBT who happens to come to that Dog park and is NOT intimidated by the Rottweilers actions a fight will purse and at the end of all of it the pitbull will be the one to blame regardless if the Rottweiler is the one that started the fight. No matter how tame or friendly your APBT may seem to other dogs NEVER assume they WON'T ever fight.

    The MISCONCEPTION that the APBT is trained to fight is TOTALLY WRONG as dog men dont have to train them , THEY ALREADY KNOW and have that fighting instinct in them from Birth hence why even some puppies will fight each other as young as 6 weeks old.

    I have even read some A.R. activist claim that dog fighters force there dogs to fight which is SO ABSURD as no one can force a animal to do something they DONT want to do. They either will fight or they will flee but there is no forcing involved as its all up to the animal and done all on the dogs own free WILL.

    You see I dont believe in Animal Rights but I do believe in a Animals Free WILL and what that said animal will ENJOY. Border collies Enjoyment is to be a herding dog, Hound dogs enjoy to track scent, Terrier breeds enjoy to hunt small animals, Catahoula crosses enjoy to hunt wild boar, Grey hounds enjoy to race, and the APBT's enjoy to FIGHT.

    The counter excuse A.R. activist like to use is even though APBT's enjoy fighting its cruel for them to be hurt after.....GUESS what in ALMOST EVERY single physical contact sport like Football , Boxing , MMA, Hockey no matter how much they enjoy that sport there is always going to have some degree of injuries after wards when its over. In this age the younger generation of people like to get a adrenaline high by doing all types and sorts of DANGEROUS activities to get that RUSH AND HIGH regardless if the consequences could result in serious injury and or DEATH.

    Animals like humans have the free will to choose what they like and want to do as well as what they dont like and dont want to do.

    I can no more impose/force a Gay persons will to become straight then I can to make a Beagle become a game fighting dog LMAO.

    Seek the TRUTH.

    If anyone else would like to add to the TRUTH please feel free to do so.
     
  2. Zylonist

    Zylonist Big Dog

    The majority of people who make these comments regarding " it's how you raise them " really aren't to familiar with what a "gamebred" dog is. Yes, there are a lot of bulldogs out there that do get along with other dogs and that's where I believe the misconception comes from thinking that if you socialize the dog you can avoid the dog's aggressive instincts. People need to understand and stop ignoring that it's "gamebred" for a reason, yeah some get away with at times when they take their "apbt pet" that they rescued or even worse when they bought a dog from Billy down the block. There are some "gamebred" dogs that are cold as ice that do hang out with other dogs with no issues. I would really love to see the experts actually raise a "gamebred" dog and when the year or so hits and the switch is ON what would be the excuse lol. OMG what happened? No big chain around its neck, fluffy dog bed with matching collar and plenty of treats and Fido lost his mind at the dog park killing 3 dogs lmao. Oh sorry we forgot to tell you the pup you raised comes from BlackRocks Kennels lmao!
     
  3. Michele

    Michele CH Dog Super Moderator

    One word...........GENETICS
     
  4. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    Great post Saiy! Keep em coming.
     
  5. niko

    niko CH Dog

    A good friend of mine works with animal rescue and she used to believe that same bullsh $# lol I started educating her about the breed and explained to her that the animal aggression was because of breeding not abuse.After years of her being around my dogs seeing how well I treat them and how people friendly they are shes also known about the few accidents I've had, needless to say she now knows its not neglect nore abuse that makes them want to get at anything with fur:)
     
  6. ursaminor

    ursaminor Top Dog


    Sayigan, that is true and agree if you look at the individual dog but I don't think it's a fair comparison when you compare over 100 years of strict selection with no short cuts of maintaining a game line. I'm not saying it will be done overnight but it can be bred out in the long haul and I believe that is the "big picture" agenda they are pushing. Look at the SBTs or other other unmaintained lines of today and see where it ended up. Now, just think what would happen if we have made effort towards breeding it out. For the record, before anyone jumps the gun and call me a PR activist/fur lover.. I am not involved with one side or the other just stating an opinion.
     
  7. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    How do u feel about the term "nanny dog"? It fits into the post I believe.
     
  8. determination

    determination Big Dog

    It's both and if you think otherwise you're a idiot. ...
    There's is, has been , and will be a problem with this topic, and how it is addressed. This will be a good exercise that applies to much more than dogs. It can be seen in different way's ,and I will call it how person's perceive a situation. It's fought with lies bending of truths misinformation and so forth. Not wanting to give a inch because people will take a mile, you will become hurt, in most this will light a fire ,which can be great but most people will become blind and defensive, and will simply take the easy route, and join another herd..... of sheep..... bbaaaaa. There's three sides to every story his side her side and the truth. Three sides to the story is a big problem EVERYWHERE, wars, fights and in this case dogs but the list goes on. With debate, or argument methods like this ground is usually had, but more in a delusional manner, truth and righteousness get thrown to the side for the sake of being right or winning the argument. In most cases it falls to a Democracy with the winner depending on which herd of is more prevalent at the time. That herd grows because the individuals will flok to the safety of its presence not wanting to stick out and be a object of there ridicule. (To be continued)
     
  9. determination

    determination Big Dog

    So this applys to most of the truth series, which I feel is great and much needed, and hopefully Saiyagin continues.
     
  10. determination

    determination Big Dog

    This topic comes too me from time to time. They spout "it's how you raise them" are most likely the type that will be regurgitating the other topics in the "truth series" I will usually follow that statement with I disagree, it has to do with breeding practices as well. Which comes as a surprise most of the time, as its a side that most likely has never been presented to them, because it's giving a inch. if they aren't surrounded by there herd of likewise thinkers, most will be easy to educate. And if they are I still voice my opinion because, I'm a individual and not a sheep lol.
    This "it's all how you raise them" is offensive to me. So you're saying that all dogs are just empty vessels? Waiting for you to show them the way? I must say, a lot of dog breeds are following this path, of just a look of a dog , that hides behind a great history of courage and task they once participated in. As the dog owner talks of his great and almighty dogs' history , as he's sitting at the dog park where his 120 lbs dog just got put in check by a 20 lbs cocker . This is one of things that draw me to the apbt, it's current. It's tested in a box where the truth will be shown, or in hunting etc. It's not a dog breed that needs to hide behind a history , pedigree, HOW BIG IT IS, OR WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. It's as some say pretty is as pretty does. I like this breed because it's reminds me of things ,that I look to in myself.
    Now alot of these people never had a aggressive dog. So they think that they know something. A lot of them have a rescue dog that was 2 when they got it, and went through a temperament check. Which is great there's nothing wrong with a rescue. But there dog psychological mind set is mundane. You hear people in this breed say heart and mind, now different dogs react natural to situations differently , this applys to breeds, strains, familys, lines and even the same litter. Now how the brain works the instinct , or wills that a dog has is in my opinion are the most important part of a dog. Now you can see this in yourself, in the times you react without your conscious,and with it as well. whether good or bad that will be on how you or others see the situation at the time, and after you have time to reflect on it and if your impressionable how others see it as well. Which even then over time conscious or will , will be what determine how long a certain thing my be done or participated in by the dog.
    Now I feel the way a dog is raised and continues to be does have a affect on the dog. There's little things here and there that can make big difference with dogs. Here's a common one . Making a big deal every time you greet your dog and leave your dog, this can cause separation anxiety, with some dogs. It can also lead to other problems. I also feel that people need to understand the difference between just raising a dog which if it's a good pet alot of times it wasn't because of hugs and kisses and behavior modification. As far a dog's being aggressive from being abused well I guess that depends on the dog must dogs that are raised like this that I've been around are cowardly. Dogs that where raised like there kids are normally the ones that are aggressive in my experience. I have never shown positive reinforcement to my dogs dog aggression. She is very dog aggressive and I have tried to make it not so from birth that's just how she is period.
    Situations in which a your dogs' are raised can show you certain things . I tell people buy a dog that has been tested in the way you will use it. Example By this I mean if you're buying a dog for a family pet buy a dog from dogs that has shown to be in the type of situation and has proven to be stable or good for it. If you're getting a dog from someone who's dogs have always been on chains or in kennels you don't know how territorial and how protective that dog my be in a house with kids. Say one of your kids friends decide to rough house with your son, is this going to fly? Which of course the dog shouldn't be put in that situation in the first place, and isn't the best example. I wanted to add more but this was a pain on the phone. That's my opinion on this subject and I hope Saiyagin continues with the truth threads.
     
  11. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    What do you mean its not a fair comparison? I dont get your point. Every breed of dogs were bred for certain TRAITS for many many years hence why its determined by there breeds ORIGINAL TRAITS and not how you raise them and even then it still comes down to each individual dog in that breed standards as every dog can be different to a degree.

    UNLESS every single person in the world that owns a APBT decides to stop breeding them for gameness, only then can we breed it out to a degree. The A.R. activist goal is not to breed out the gameness because they KNOW it wont ever happen as long as there are people out there willing to continue with this practice, there real goal is for total control and liberation of all animals BY CONTROLLING THE PEOPLE through all these BULLSHIT laws that actually violate our civil rights. The A.R. activist want the Wolf and the sheep to be walking two by two in peace but that aint never going to happen on earth LOL.

    You cant breed it out completely even in other lines like the amstaff or other dominant breeds of dogs but you can curb it to certain degrees depending on each individual dog. All animals have aggression and all animals have the tendency to fight its just part of nature some just have it more then others. Now a SBT might not be really dog aggressive but they can have a more dominant disposition then a Labrador or Poodle which means that when challenged the SBT can still put up a better fight then a poodle due to them having that fighting lineage way in the past.

    We have all seen this effort of them breeding it out to a degree and these dogs are no longer recognized by dogmen as Game bred bulldogs but instead are classified as a SEPERATE breed of dog even with there OWN registry, they are called BULLIES/BULLYS. And yes there are some bullies that are dog aggressive to a degree and some are even human aggressive to a degree its just part of there dominate nature.

    Like I said before 3 main instincts of all animals is fighting , fucking and feeding and not particularly in that order LOL.

    Last but not least being neutral is worse then being on the wrong side, if you dont stand for something you will fall for anything.
     
  12. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    Deter stop fucking up my threads with all your jibberish crap LMAO
     
  13. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Alot of greats are born with a natural talent.Some greats are led by the right people...
    The saying its not the dog its how you raise it can be argued on either side...
    Inbetween all the BULL, there is the BALANCE it takes for someone to make an HONEST ASSESSMENT...
    Its safe to say your opinons are valid when your dealing with someone like you...
    Come out the realm of narrowmindedness ...
    The Ace tdk calls Jake was said to be an INDIVIDUAL...He liked long walks at the dog park and didnt mind others that respected him.Maybe more an INDIVIDUAL thing as opposed to HOW YOU RAISE it moniker...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [289393] :: MTN BOY'S CH JAKE 3X
    These greats were the same type INDIVDUAL...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1141] :: MALIK'S IBM
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [276379] :: KILLER COMBINE'S VENGEANCE (6XW) (ROM)
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [12087] :: RCC'S IVAN
    This one on the other hand lives up to that ITS HOW YOU RAISE THEM moniker...
    Rarely seen a leash,this dog traveled more than most humans.He wore leashes at his pt job at the flea market selling bunjee leashes demostrating the assorbance for potential customers.Was known as charmer and could sell a leash to a chiuauia owner.Loved to work and put himself on the mill or in the pool.A rare Indivdual that stem from multiple generations of the same...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [380753] :: ROCHESTER COMBINE'S GABE 1XGL
    NOT THE NORM as the NORM knows no better...
    Its all about BOTH the dog and the man/woman being INDIVIDUALS,TO EACH THIER OWN...
     
  14. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Alot of greats are born with a natural talent.Some greats are led by the right people...
    The saying its not the dog its how you raise it can be argued on either side...
    Inbetween all the BULL, there is the BALANCE it takes for someone to make an HONEST ASSESSMENT...
    Its safe to say your opinons are valid when your dealing with someone like you...
    Come out the realm of narrowmindedness ...
    The Ace tdk calls Jake was said to be an INDIVIDUAL...He liked long walks at the dog park and didnt mind others that respected him.Maybe more an INDIVIDUAL thing as opposed to HOW YOU RAISE it moniker...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [289393] :: MTN BOY'S CH JAKE 3X
    These greats were the same type INDIVDUAL...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1141] :: MALIK'S IBM
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [276379] :: KILLER COMBINE'S VENGEANCE (6XW) (ROM)
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [12087] :: RCC'S IVAN
    This one on the other hand lives up to that ITS HOW YOU RAISE THEM moniker...
    Rarely seen a leash,this dog traveled more than most humans.He wore leashes at his pt job at the flea market selling bunjee leashes demostrating the assorbance for potential customers.Was known as charmer and could sell a leash to a chiuauia owner.Loved to work and put himself on the mill or in the pool.A rare Indivdual that stem from multiple generations of the same...
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [380753] :: ROCHESTER COMBINE'S GABE 1XGL
    NOT THE NORM as the NORM knows no better...
    Its all about BOTH the dog and the man/woman being INDIVIDUALS,TO EACH THIER OWN...
     
  15. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    Another Dumb ass fucking up my thread because he cant understand the concept of my topic, probably due to you being from another country and cant speak or understand English that well. LMAO

    What you are trying to portray is basically the opposite ends of the spectrum of how the A.R. activist view the term , "its not the breed but how you raise them", and in both cases your BOTH wrong.

    So your saying cause they were raised right is the reason why they became good dogs/Champions/Grandchampions??? BULLSHIT..... There ARE many dogs that were raised right that were CURSSSSSSS LMAO.
     
  16. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    I related these Individuals as the type that could have been whatever thier owner wanted(give or take).
    This same atribute made them who they were,all of these dogs could go to a dog park...
    Stps ch Black Paz jr. was another example who, him and champion ivvan could be cut loose in the hs track/football field together with no accidents,RARE IDIVIDUALS can be molded is my only counter to your nonesense...
    YOUR IGNORANCE PREVAILS...
     
  17. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    Your the one that is A IGNORANT FOOL, those individuals you mentioned are the RARE exception to the rule and it WASNT due to the way the owners raised them or molded them, your nonsense BULLSHIT you keep on spewing is going to make some of these green ass newbies who dont know any better believe that they can keep 2 bulldogs together without any accidents or bring a bulldog to a dog park without any accidents...by you writing this shit on my topic just PROVES how IGNORANT you really are because you dont even understand my Topic in the first place. Its IGNORANT people like you Eliaspistola trying to act like the hard core seasoned dog man when this is not the topic for that type of display of chest beating to flaunt your EGO, all your doing is adding fuel to the fire and confusing the shit out of people that dont know the TRUTH.

    You seem to like to post on 6-7 topics in a row just to hear your self talk because most of what you say is is just jibberish nonsense that lead nowhere especially since you cant speak or understand the english language very well hence the reason why I dont usually respond to any of your ridiculous posts, the only reason I am responding now is because you are fucking up my post that I am trying to get across to ALL the brainwashed blinded people that think its how you raise them because thats what the BULLSHIT media by the A.R. activist is feeding them which are all LIES.
     
  18. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    LMFAO at Saiy!


    For the record, I 100% agree with Saiy's message. What EP stated is definitely a rare exception, not the normal.
     
  19. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    I'm not sure you can breed the DA out of this breed at least not 100 percent..I have saw am staffs and bullies that were super hot and had not one ounce of heart..I saw a Camelot hound get loose and wander on my dads yard now I never saw one before...I'm thinking man this is one big ass APBT ...He went right after dads guard dog and I said well I guess its Reds last day..Red my fathers guard dog and dam if he didn't whip the camelot bullie. I have saw 2 of the Camelot bullie dogs and both were super hot and would gas out in about 5 lol..My point is yes you can for sure loose heart but I don't think you can breed DA out 100 percent..And very true not all game dogs are 100 percent DA..Some are selective DA.
     
  20. Beatrix Kiddo

    Beatrix Kiddo Top Dog

    just for clarification, that was said with sarcasm.
     

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