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Very young APBT found.....has issues

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by bettell, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. bettell

    bettell Pup

    About a month ago, my husband brought home a puppy that his buddy's kids had found on the side of the road in a box. Poor thing couldn't have been but about 5 weeks old, and was covered in sarcoptic mange. He's been going to the vet regularly for treatment and is recovering very well from the mange. He is otherwise a very healthy pup (he's now current on his shots). My husband named him Buster (how original, lol) and our other APBT is Merrick.
    Buster has been in quarantine since we've had him, due to the mange (we have a 6 month old APBT and a mini schnauzer, and 2 younger children) so we're just now getting to assess his true character. Come to find out he's got a lot of issues for such a young pup. This is what I'm writing for help about. I know how to prevent all these behaviors from occuring in the first place, but not how to untrain them. Poor little thing must have had a horrible first few weeks of life to be the way he is.
    Ok, down to the nitty gritty. He's pretty aggressive towards our other APBT - the schnauzer doesn't care much for other dogs, so he avoids both of them, but he's not aggressive. Sometimes Buster starts it with Merrick, others Merrick starts it, just wanting to play. We're pretty sure Buster isn't just playing, though. As of right now, he's too little to hurt Merrick, and Merrick's having a ball playing, but I want to train Buster out of this aggressive behaviour long before he gets big enough to do any damage.
    Next issue. Buster is extremely food aggresive. My husband discovered it this morning. He fed the pup, then went to kind of mess with the food and such (like we trained the other 2 NOT to be food aggresive) and Buster attacked. He tried again and the same thing happened. I tried later after he told me, and the same thing happened. I know how to prevent this from the beginning, but I do not know how to go about untraining him.
    These are the 2 main issues right now. If anyone can help me to solve them, we'll be greatly appreciative!!!

    Thanks!

    Pics - tan/white is Buster black/white is Merrick mini. schnauzer is Fritz
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Bully

    Bully Pup

    put it down. it is human aggressive. you are asking for it if you don't. some might think i'm wrong, but i'm not. if it is agressive towards your husband, who is an adult, it is a serious threat to your children later. if it was only animal aggressive it would be another story. i have two small children and have put dogs down for the same thing. i don't take chances.
     
  3. LadyRampage

    LadyRampage Top Dog

    Supervised play with immediate corrections, and seperations to diffuse the situation. You may have your work cut out for you because this little guy could have aggression issues, even at this young age, that would be difficult to complete erase.

    The food aggression could simply be from his time alone, and he is basically "guarding" his food from the other dogs. This could simply go away once he is comfortable with his food situation but I would again seperate during feeding time.

    I'm assuming his aggression issues are with other dogs and not with you correct? Many APBTs have natural animal aggression that can be curbed/controled but never completely gone and this could very well be the case with your new addition. Also I did see if you said that Merrick is a male or female? If these are both males you could be fighting an uphill losing battle..

    Lots of work, and no unsupervised play/alone time with immediate and consistant corrections.

    Good luck..
     
  4. Irish_Deciple

    Irish_Deciple Big Dog

    I wouldent take chances with a human aggressive dog around children. I too like bully, have 2 young children. I couldent see taking the risk of them being around a dog like that. Perhaps finding a home that has some room and no children might be the best bet for that APBT.
     
  5. LadyRampage

    LadyRampage Top Dog

    Actually I just realized after Bully posted that the food aggression was toward your husband... Be VERY careful in this situation because it MUST be dealt with immediately and corrected.

    Bully I don't think you could call it human aggression just yet since it was abandoned in a box and only been at the new home a month. A starved dog will remember not eating and tend to be very protective over its food... Now after correction if the behavior increases or doesn't get better then there could be a problem.
     
  6. bettell

    bettell Pup


    I'm hoping that you're right about the food aggresion - this is what I was thinking as well.

    Right, he has no aggression issues with us, so long as we don't touch his food. He's a very, very sweet puppy. I was kind of afraid that this might happen, as I know that originally Pit Bulls were bred to be dog aggressive, but not towards humans. They are both males, but my older one doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. He's (Merrick) been very well socialized with male and females dogs of other ages and breeds, and even when faced with a confrontation, he was the one to back down. I have no worries of fights concerning alpha male position or anything like that. Will having the pup fixed possiblt help curb this aggressiveness? I'm also hoping that maybe he's just had a rough puppyhood so far, and will learn that we are here to love him, and the other dogs as well - is this a foolish and unlikely hope? Merrick has never even tried to defend himself against the puppy, he just tries to play.

    Is separation/immed. correction the only thing that can be done right now?

    Thanks so much for your help. I've never been in this situation before.
     
  7. Have you tried to feed Buster by hand? Give him a small portion of his food in the bowl, once he's done eating it, drop a few more kibble in the bowl. That way he'll understand the "hand" is giving food not taking it away.

    I'd still supervise the play with Merrick, he's still considered a puppy. And his personality towards other dogs may change once he fully matures.
     
  8. bettell

    bettell Pup

    I have fed Buster out of my hand, as has my husband, and he just eats happily. It's when you actually stick your hand in his food and try to take it that he gets mean. (That just sounds like a stupid thing to do, LOL) I'll start trying to go from hand to bowl etc. and see what happens.
     
  9. LadyRampage

    LadyRampage Top Dog

    Begin handling Buster's food all the time, pet him while he is eating, on his body not near his head trying to reassure him that you are not going to take it away. Keep this up until he understands that you are no threat to his food. Hopefully this will help.

    As for the aggression problems... Unfortunately with 2 males, and one already acting aggressive toward the other you could be in for a ride. The animal aggression is something that, I truely believe, is ALWAYS there even if your dogs has NEVER shown any aggressive attitude. I don't believe in dog parks for APBTs, and I don't believe in letting 2 or 3 run together to "play"...just an accident waiting to happen, although I understand it may NOT. It could come down to closely supervised play or completely seperate lives.

    Having this puppy fixed is probably not going to help in any way. Many of these dogs have a will to dominant, and even getting them fixed isn't going to change that, although some it does. You might want to consult with a behavior expert since its hard for anyone online to diagnosis the actually problems without seeing the dog.

    Right now Buster needs to know his boundaries so the immediate correction and seperation will let him know that its not alright to jump on Merrick. Try to keep toys that they might "argue" about from them as they play, this could help with the dominance issues somewhat. I wish I could tell you that with work this would go away but for the most part you can hope to control it.

    Good luck
     
  10. LadyRampage

    LadyRampage Top Dog

    After I reread my post I don't mean to sound so down there is always hope, but I don't want to build you up when its going to be lots of work..

    As young as both are and with you on top of things all the time you should be able to work out a livable solution. Keep the thought that there is ALWAYS a possiblity of EITHER male being aggressive and you'll do tons better.
     
  11. scratchin dog

    scratchin dog CH Dog

    I had the same problem with my pup. I fed him every meal only from my hand for a month. Then when I put my hand near his food bowl I would drop in something very tasty like steak or hamburger. After that was working well I would take a toy from him and immediately give it back. Then I would take a toy and replace it with a bone. Now I have no issues with food aggression and can take anything from his mouth and put my hands in his food bowl. Give it a try and let us know how it goes. Good Luck!
     
  12. bettell

    bettell Pup

    That's awesome! My husband just gave Buster a bone, then petted him on his back while he ate it, and other than an initial warning growl all was well.

    I've also reliazed that I don't think I explained Buster's aggressiveness towards Merrick very well. Buster doesn't just come out of nowhere and attack Merrick. It's more like, they go to play, then Buster turns aggressive. Like he's having to defend himself instead of playing. It's clear that his intentions are to play when all starts out, whether its him or Merrick who starts it. Then something seems to click and its very nasty growling and snapping on Buster's part. They'll lay down together and sleep, sharing the same blanket. Buster didn't make any type of gesture towards my schnauzer a few minutes ago (I was sitting on the floor grooming) except to play, and when Fritz ignored him he went and layed down. Merrick's never done anything but gently play back, but my thoughts are that for some reason, unknown to us, probably occuring from wherever he was before, he feels that he needs to defend himself against Merrick. They immidiately stop when I call their names. I'm hoping the issue will be able to be sorted, but I will keep a close eye on them, and if I can't be with them, keep them separated in their kennels.



     
  13. LadyRampage

    LadyRampage Top Dog

    It actually sounds like competion.... Buster may think that starting out they are on equal terms but as the play continues he isn't dominant the other dog as he wants and becomes aggressive to try and get that control. Sometimes the little dog just wants to be in control all the time and gets frustrated when things do not go his way. He could also be testing the older dog's limits, which could get worse as he grows up. Continue with the corrections and hope he grows out of it.. Great job on the food aggression sounds like that problem can be dealt with quickly.

    I have an older male that is great with pups and have seem pups do this same thing to him. When they realize that they can't "beat" him they become angry and aggressive.. Lucky for me as long as they are little my male gets a kick out of it and I've actually caught him calmly holding them down under his leg (while he is laying on the floor), releasing them, and the pup getting up spitting fire. He seems to enjoy showing them he is bigger than them without hurting them. Now my older male knows he's not suppose to tease the pups, but he sneaks in an occasional dig. Funny thing is he is completely adult dog aggressive.
     
  14. Dano

    Dano Big Dog

    Ok , I had the same problem with food and all I did was everytime the dogs ate I was there and my hand was in the food and yes dropping in a treat works awesome . I can now put my whole face in the food dish ( I know its stupid but you never know was a baby would do!!) my two pups will just sit and wait for me to more and for that they get a treat.


    Now for the playing and aggression. Remember that APBT's play rough but never let it get out of hand . Try a spay bottle with warm water (room temp) not cold cause them they get scared when it comes to bath time. Shoot the pup and say "NO" if he still doesn't stop repeat , if that doesn't work take him away from the other dog and say "NO" and make him take a time out .( just like a child) do this all the time never let it slide and I will tell you it works great . If you can fix this by doing this method , let me know. Also remember that just because your dog seems to not have an aggresive bone in his body NEVER let your guard down!!! They are excatly what we call them they are dogs and you never know what can happen. (Poodle to Pitbull they all have teeth)
     
  15. Pit Blldg

    Pit Blldg Pup

    One time when my last pit was about 10 months I stuck my face in his food bowl and pushed him out of the way while he was eating, he pushed me back, I pushed him away again with my face, and we kept going back and forth until he growled. So I did the old NO BAD DOG, bump under the chin, shake him by the srcruff of his neck correction bit. After that as soon as I stuck my face in his bowl he'd back off and lay down about two feet away from the bowl and just wait there until I finished 'eating'. He remained that way until he died. So that was an 'old school' method but it worked really well.
     
  16. JCleve86

    JCleve86 Big Dog

    I'm not sure sticking you head in the dish of a dog whose already shown that he's willing to bite over food is such a great idea.

    I have a question seperate from the issue...you mentioned that your other boy Merrick is socialized very well, which I doubt in no way, but do you keep him seperated from your Schnauzer when you aren't home? The golden rule with this breed is "Never trust your pit bull not to fight." If you are keeping them seperated, than ignore me, but if not, you need to start. I've seen a picture (I'll see if I can track it down for you) of a kitchen completely bloodied after two pit bulldogs who had gotten along GREAT for YEARS got into a scrap when the owner wasn't home. I believe one of them died...it's just not worth the risk.

    Check your private messages...
     
  17. Pit Blldg

    Pit Blldg Pup

    I was bitten in the face by a rescue mutt - bit right through my lip and gave me a black eye. That really sucked!!! In any event, I didn't just dive right back into my pup's food bowl after the correction for growling. For a week or so once I filled up his bowl I'd pretend to eat first while he waited for his turn, played with his food while he was eating, petted him while he was eating, started taking food out of his mouth, etc.
     
  18. pitdog30

    pitdog30 Pup

    I hate to say it but you still do not know if Merrick is dog agressive yet or not sometimes it doesn't show until they are three years old, and like you've been told here it can be "curved" not eliminated from his blood. Good luck with the little guy whatever happens think of your children first. My Chilly Willy looks just like merrick and my wife and I have had him for 3 1/2 years and love him very much but let me tell you that if he EVER showed any aggression towards my 8 mo. old baby he would be out of the door in no time.

    And, don't get me wrong I would not put him down he would go to a responsible owner that I would have checked out long before I handed him over.

    Chilly was like a child to us since we couldn't have babies for 7 years but then when we found out that my wife was pregnant it all changes kids come first everything is second..
     
  19. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    bettell, I applaud you for trying to help this dog as I have a shar pei/cane corso with food aggression issues.. But just ask yourself one question. If there was a toy on the floor & the dog had it, but one of the kids went to pick it up, would you trust this dog? Also, what if the dog is eating & one of your kids just happened to wander into his "territory", again do you trust this dog? There are several things that can be done to try & help this animal, but if you don't trust this animal, maybe another home would be best.
     
  20. Texasbulldogs

    Texasbulldogs Top Dog

    “He's pretty aggressive towards our other APBT”
    Most bulldogs are “dog aggressive”, some earlier than others.<O:p</O:p

    “We're pretty sure Buster isn't just playing, though.”
    What makes you think, “Buster isn’t just playing”? Each pup will play different from the next, even within the same litter.<O:p</O:p

    “As of right now, he's too little to hurt Merrick, and Merrick's having a ball playing”
    If he was actually hurting “Merrick” he would mostly scold the pup.
    “but I want to train Buster out of this aggressive behaviour long before he gets big enough to do any damage.”
    This is the wrong breed to own if you do not want an animal aggressive dog. <O:p</O:p

    “Buster is extremely food aggressive”
    Most likely caused from being left on the street, having to fight for every scrape he could find. Feed him with a collar and leash on, when he shows signs of aggression give a quick and swift correction.<O:p</O:p

    “He's (Merrick) been very well socialized with male and females dogs of other ages and breeds, and even when faced with a confrontation, he was the one to back down.”
    Socialization has nothing to do with a bulldog’s animal aggressiveness. You can socialize them all day everyday and they will still be dog aggressive, your training will not change your dog’s genetic makeup. Your dog’s lack of animal aggression now could simply be his is still a pup and not “turned on” yet, or he is just a street-bred imitation and not truly a pit bull.<O:p</O:p

    “I have no worries of fights concerning alpha male position or anything like that.”
    Why not? They don’t fight just fight for “alpha position”. I hope you don’t let ignorance or wishful thinking keep you from preventing and/or preparing for a fight.<O:p</O:p

    “will learn that we are here to love him, and the other dogs as well - is this a foolish and unlikely hope?”
    Yes, it is foolish of you thinking this breed will “love” your other pets. As a general rule, always plan on your dog/s never getting along with other animals. <O:p</O:p

    “Merrick has never even tried to defend himself against the puppy, he just tries to play.”
    That’s good that nothing has happened. But that could all change in a matter of seconds. I hope you’re at least prepared if a fight does occur.
     

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