staffies and pitbull's history

I only have maybe 3 or photos of that dog i'll try to find one that shows his head at a better angle, but you've still ignored the fact I've just told you the dog had just been exercised for a solid 2 hours of pretty intense exercise, how many bad winded dogs could do that? and also that is the same dog the late Sean Casey started out with, now granted after a few months with Sean he was leaner and fitter because Sean was a professional boxer and ran the dog on the roads for 8 - 10 mile per day a well as whatever other regime he'd put him through to prepare him.
there's a few other men on this forum who can confirm this, how many bad winded dogs could run for 8 - 10 miles along side a professional boxer in his prime?

 

lol, i posted that because it showed even in modern times they can do a job unlike the modern KC staffords, below is a kerry working wild boars, I've seen some on here praise pitbulls for doing the same work.
it goes to show us all that some breeds can do a lot more than we assume even though they've been used for showing by the large majority of people for a long time? and another pic with a kerry after a badger dig, now i know the badger work doesent impress many on here, but as i said, ive seen them praise pits for working wild hogs yet here's a kerry doing it, the mere terrier show dog.

 

Im not judging your dog on the photo of his mouth wide open ,,Im judging your dog on the other photo ,where he is jumping, he is a typical SBT, he is too thick built, his muzzle is too short, his ribcage is too large for his body size

 

Are you for real or is this just a joke, in the 1st photo the Kerry blue looks like he is circling the boars - not going in on them ?... the other is a road kill with a show champion Kerry blue posing beside it...if it was on a dig ..where is the dirt and muck ?he is not even interested in it ....I think you are just having a laugh,,,because nobody could be that foolish

 

I'll not argue with you on that observation but the feats he managed when he was alive were a lot better than his look would have suggested he should have been able to perform, I don't want to throw up any names here, but out of curiosity did you know any men from over here in Derry in the mid to late 80s because I've heard your name years ago and had a fair idea when my nephew told me about this site that you're the same man who's name i heard over 20 years ago in some conversations here.

 

I knew some of the old dog men, some that you mentioned in other posts, and some who moved away from there, but just curious , you ware only joking when you put up the photos of the Kerry blue ?

 

With the badger? lol they must have washed the badger and the dog by the look of it, they even managed to clip/trim the kerry for his next show, he looks way too groomed and clean for a dog just after a dig?
but the one with the boars is interesting, id like to have seen more of that session

 

If it was a video of the Kerry blue and the Boars ..all we would have seen is a dog trying to round up hogs, I have a large bet he'd not go in on them

 

I'd agree, he looks like he's learned enough to come up behind them and nip & run, knows to keep his distance, i thought it was interesting to even see them being used for cattle or anywhere near the likes of a boar, apart from the old working type kerry's my grandfather had i've only seen them as pets or show dogs.

 

Red Eagle it wouldnt be right for me to name individual staffords or a particular bloodline as the owners dont seek publicity , i do know friends that own PURE staffords with no Bull or Pitbull blood in them that to my knowledge have been bred as a family without outcross for at least twenty five years , these people DO NOT sell pups or stud out there dogs and have been involved with dogs many years ,

 

The fact a dog can chase sticks up and down a hill , swing on a tyre for two hours , swim like a dolphin , run ten miles or pull weights dont mean nothing , nor does having short or long legs a undershot or overshot bite one bollock or two a big rib cage or a big or small head . Gamedogs come in all shapes and sizes , i used to work dogs hard for up to six hours each day , some could handle it others could not , some that could later quit others that couldnt handle the work proved to be very game , it dont matter if a dogs got a short muzzle pricked ears or is squat tall lean or stumpy as long as they scratch when asked to is all that should concern you , if you your concerned about looks your in the wrong game as gameness comes in all shapes and sizes

 

i blind man can see that Kerry blue ain't worked that badger. looks like he has come straight out the grooming parlor

 

LoL ! Does not look like the great bloodbeard i agree.

 

When you say 25 years of breading as a family with no out cross, how many generations would there be in the pedigrees of the dogs living today from this family.

 

JT when you say 25 years of breading as a family with no outcross, how many generations would there be in the pedigrees of the dogs living today from this family from 25 years ago from the foundation dogs that started this family to today's dogs.

 

I think this topic has slipped off topic a bit,

The history of the SBT & APBT will forever be connected no matter what people say...

 

i dont buy into the belief that the apbt is the original bull dog with no terrier in the mix. im aware of the paintings we have and the dates on them but how much faith can we put in an artists impression of what the dog looks like. eg. if any of you were artists and you painted a pic of your missus ide bet most of you would egsadurate on their breast size and maybe tightin up that ass and belly a bit. a good exsample is the pic and the painting of the same dog we seen earlier in this thread. in the pic the dog looks a bit of a slouch but in the painting he looks like a top athlete. im also aware of the arguement that says "why would anyone cross a terrier into a strain of game dogs. and that makes alot of sense, but only if we think that the dogs of old these men were baiting bulls with were game as we know it today. but what if these dogs of old were just brave and gritty dogs that put up a good show and held on to or pinned a bull by the nose into submission like a good cattle dog would do to put manners on an unrully bull. or when matched into each other, just had enough grit and bravery to put on a good show. im sure alot of people here have read the "historical artical" about the bulldog that kept hold of his bull while its owner chopped the dogs legs off 1 by 1. excuse the punn but i say" bullshit"! my point is that we shouldnt believe everything we read about these dogs of old being game dogs as we know them today. i believe these dogs were brave and rough dogs but not game. so assuming that im right, lets ask the question.. what does a medium to large size brave gripping dog have to gain from crossing with a brave, tenatious terrier thats trade mark move is trying to shake out and finish his quarry as soon as possible ? i think this cross would just make for better sport to be honest but maybe gamness came later through selective breeding of this cross and not before. one more thing that comes to mind while im rambling. and this certainly wont rock anyones whole belief system but il throw it out there for what its worth. im looking at the ped of a working bred wheaten terrier and the last injection of bull blood in this dog was the famous e.b.t "red hand of ulster" and that was 5 gens back and one or two dogs in the 5th gen that i think are half bull half wheaten so not really a big influence of bull, yet if you shave the wully coat off this wheaten[like most of them] he looks very simular to your average pitbull. so you could argue that this more modern cross of a medium sized terrier and bull blood produced something very simular in form to the modern apbt, i will admit its an arguement you could pick holes in but for the sake of conversation, fuck it.

 

Hi brenner,

Interesting read but I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that the dogs of old were not game as we weren't there at the time. As for the old story of a dogman chopping off a dogs legs while hanging onto a bull is wrong. I heard it was an ear, lol, just to prove the dogs resistance to pain and it's tenacity. Gameness has always been there but I think the dogs of today from what I read and in my opinion are gamer because of the years of breading and nerchuring and schooling these dogs from an early age has developed the game dog into a totally different animal from the game dogs of yesteryear.

 

thanks for reply herodog. i agree that no one can say for sure they werent game dogs but no one say for sure that they actually were. as for the bull dog story i deffo read it was his legs that was supposedly chopped off but maybe the artical i read was a bad copy of an original, maybe someone else here can clear that one up for us

 

Iknow of two seperate familys both are bred from two dogs that were the foundation of the two strains , these two familys are not related both families go back at least ten generations with each dog in the pedigree being bred from the same two original dogs , only bred in a different lineage but using the same blood . The original two dogs that started the strains were also closeley related , both families are stronger today and carry no genetic faults , the original dogs were also bred closely prior to these families being bred .