How do you view yourself?

We are not discussing legal guardianship so get that out of your head and your post. The term guardian is loosely translated as one who watches over and/manages another being. Once again we're not comparing dogs to humans either so get that out of your head. What we are comparing is guardianship to ownership which does just so happen to come into play in both the human world and the dog world. In the legal world yes your dog is your property but if I remember correctly, the question ask "how do you view yourself". My dogs are not slaves or they are not without rights, therefore I watch over them and make sure they are well taken care of within their rights and so forth.

Dogs="mans best friend" not mans best piece of property. My how times have really changed. People change their minds and personal beliefs because they're told to.

 

ok, this might make me sway the way I feel.......

 

dogs are property.

doesnt mean you cant love it, or bond with it though.


i am kind of scared of the person that puts a dog as thier equal... i

have known people with the whol parent mentality. all you have to do is watch the dog whisperer... full of "parents and guardians" they are usually the ones with dogs that think the owner is below them and have behavioral problems.

 

I don't know who appointed YOU forum police but you have NO business telling me or ANY one else what to or not to post. Any one who "grounds a dog" is not one to be taken seriously ANY way IMO.

 

i must of missed that one? Who grounds their dog?

 

Your dog has no idea why it can't go on walks for a week. Grounding is for children, not dogs. Read any dog training book and you will see grounding a dog is not going to be the least bit effective. This whole idea of grounding your dog is nothing more than a way to make you feel good about the situation and a way of humanizing your dog. If you want to train your dog to stop pulling, correct it in a manner that the dog understands. A method used for a child is NOT going to work for a dog.

I really hope your children don't feel like you treat your dogs as an equal to them. I can imagine that would cause a lot of resentment and confusion while growing up.

 

He did.

People change their minds and personal beliefs because they're told to.

That may be true for YOU Scratchy, but it is not for everyone.

 

Training a dog not to pull on a leash!! What a novel concept!!

 

yeah... grounding a dog is a huge mistake.. they wont understand or remeber that that not going on a walk is thier fault after the first day. Timing a correction to the instant of the infraction is the best thing to do. once its over... its over. meaning correct and scold that behavior but move on, dont give the dog dirty looks or punish the dotg the rest of the day. once it has been corrected for that particular thing. let it go.




The best piece of advice to training a dog... live in the moment. dont let old trasgressions affect your current mood or interactions with the dog. it has NO idea that you are mad at it for something it did yesterday. everyday should be a brand new start.

 

Scratchy: with all due respect, this is not a good thing to be doing. Dogs are not human. They need discipline that is much much different than disciplining a child. The type of discipline you are using on your dogs is only confusing them. They must be unhappy, to say the least because they aren't able to act like dogs act.

Well, this is your opinion.

 

I am no gregarious animal .If you think the majority has always automatically right you lie wrong. I always had own head . Without this you never become a millionnaire....

 

sounds like a few people here have the same agenda as peta. your dog is equal to u. are u crazy? it is an animal, a beast of burden, and yes a companion. but to consider it as an equal is just assinine. and your dogs are not your children (genetically impossible) they are pets = property. people have understood there relatioonship with animals for over 4000 years, it is only in the last 50 years or so these nutcases have started coming out with this disturbing agenda. G-d gave man dominion (actually the word translates to domination) over all creatures of the earth. love them as we do they are still our property nothing more nothing less.

 

i get confused because when I hear the word "property" I think your car, your couch, your house...these are not breathing things.

The post that Cheekymunkee put up does make me think. I had originally put guardian as far as me and my dog. Now, I do NOT treat my dog like a human at all. That is a no-no. Yes, he is spoiled but he's not equal to me.

 

I see myself as Max's parent...he's my baby & i treat him as if he's a member of the family!

 

thats too bad. as Max matures this could lead to a ton of problems.
you might want to rethink your relationship and how Max views you in the "pack". Often times what you think of as babying the dog is acually giving the dog the aplha position outright or giving him the impression that the spot is up for grabs.

No one is saying beat your dog, or mistreat it in anyway, but there needs to be a clear and defined line of dominance. your dog needs to know and be reassured everyday that you are a confident, assertive, capable leader. not an equal... and not a parent. Dogs dont have the same family dynamic that we do. so trust me he doesnt share that view of you as a parent. because in a dogs world someone HAS to lead. if not you then him and thats where the problems start.

 

Yep. My dogs are house dogs. They live in my house, sleep on beds, eat a raw diet & are pretty well spoiled. BUT they KNOW who is boss, there is no doubt in any of their minds who is human & who is not. They know their places & it is NOT shoulder to shoulder with me OR my child. THAT is how children get bitten, by not letting a dog know they are NOT the child's equal or superior.

 

can't you have both? Can't you have a clear and defined line and still have the dog as your family? As long as the dog knows not to cross certain lines.

never mind, I just saw Cheeky's post......

 

yes! KEY word here: BEING!!!!!! A BEING is NOT an animal!
you get it?????!!!!! or should i get it "out of my head"?!!!

and "grounding your dog"?, I'm sorry that is probably one of THE most assine things I've ever heard! Do you really think that dog has ANY idea why it's not going for walks? A reprimand is good only if it's done at the exact moment an animal needs it, so he/she can associate any wrong behavior with the correction. Not, days later. again, humanizing....poor dog!
and yes the question was asked as to how one views themselves, and then furthur posts went on to say they couldn't understand 'why' people might choose "property", hence, the explanations in furthur replies.

Scratchy you say: "Once again we're not comparing dogs to humans either so get that out of your head."

but here you DO compare:
"To the rest of you I ask this question: If someone adopts kids or has a child that has kids and they end up raising them then would you call that ownership? Since when do living beings own other living beings? I'm not trying to be all "we are the world" here but no-one has a legitimate reason as to why they ultimately consider it ownership".


you also said:yes, "Legal Guardian", actually, right here:

Old Timer: You're a respected man but that post you made was just foolish. It's not about beastiality or any inhumane act. It's about ultimately being responsible for your dogs. You take care of them so technically you are their "Legal guardian"(to protect and watch over them) whether you like it or not. That goes for all of you.









yet, you have the nerve to tell me to "get that out of my head", when it was YOUR very own words I quoted?!!!wtf?!!!!!



you:
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"We are not discussing legal guardianship so get that out of your head and your post. The term guardian is loosely translated as one who watches over and/manages another being".

here you say:
I'm not comparing my dogs to my kid b/c I know the dog is descended from a wild animal and I'm not wild............

yet here: you say
"My dogs are my kids".

what is WITH you and your back and forth posting? i'm sorry, don't think it was Oldtimer who looked "foolish", .....

 

I had such a good post all typed up and ready to submit.. when the board had to go and get inself backup and change servers. so its gone.

at any rate it basically (now i will just have to summarize) said that people seem to want to put human emotion and feelings and rationaliation behind animals actions... you CANT DO THAT. they are not people, they do not think they way you do, they do not bond the want that you do. Your dog isnt going to think you are a bad person if you never let is sleep on the bed... and actually allowing your dog to sleep on your bed can compromise your role as alpha. With that said its possible to let your dog sleep in bed with you and still be considered the alpha by the way you carry yourself and interact with the dog in other ways. Ceasar is really good at teaching people little tricks that establish dominance subliminally. letting your dog walk through a door before you, letting your dog eat before you, feeding a dog that is begging at your feet, petting the dog when it comes to you and presents itself.

the relationship my dog i have is a very close one... i tell people all the time "he is like my son." but at the same time.. he is a dog. he gets no special consessions on that fact. He is a very large very powerful animal and i have children. there can be no gray area about where he sits in the pack. My daughters can take food, toys, bones, and whatever else from them and not only do they not obect.. they will usually get up and move away from them while they have it. my 3 year old plays fetch and tug with him all the time. if she says "out" he releases the tug or drops the ball. she is hiogher in rank then him. at the same time we all roll in the floor and love all over each other and have a ball. he is 100% house dog. he gets treats and snacks like anyone else, but he works for them. if its sitting or a 10 minutes down-stay he has to do something to get that treat. he has to sit to get outside... he has to walk behind me to keep going forward on a walk... iof he get out in front neckbreaker u-turn and i go the other way like nothing happened. even when it comes to taking a leak, he has to be released from my side to go and piss on a tree... everything is controlled but it makes for a happier dog. he knows what he can and cant do. there are no inconsistancies. he is corrected for a mistep and then we move on. If he shits on the floor (hasnt happened in a long time, knock on wood) i am not mad at him... i am amad at me. I know his limits and i know that the only way that would happen is if i didnt provide him the chance to eliminate in the right place. if something gets chewed up its my fault ($600 handspring visor) i left it out on th ebd and didnt give him his chew... thats my fault not the dogs.

dogs forget incidents after they occur. peope think that dogs know when they have done wrong... its not entirely true. dogs know what you look like when they have done wrong, they are reacting to your body language, the tone of your words, and the words that you use. they dont know what your mad about they just know your mad.

its hard to explain dogs and kids learn in a similar manner, there are lots of things that can go both ways, but as far as though process and your role to them... NOTHING like a kid.

 

That first sentence is a devastating argument against the whole guardian idea. The essence of great use of language is simplicity and you said it in one sentence.