vick's indictment interesting

I said IF it didnt suffer and it was quick, its humane IMO. We have to agree to disagree on the humane ways issue.

Im not defending him or his people, all Im doing is asking you to QUESTION EVERYTHING and beleive about 2% of what you hear about this case. Everyone involved is a shady character and there is NO honor among most theives.

 

I have heard a lot more people are turning to electrocution.They do sponge them down first so it is very quick.The slamming into the ground though is hard to understand.That`s just cruelty there.

 

Fair enough....

 

again, i will agree to disagree on the electrocution.

 

Humane vs Inhumane , the whole act of dog fighting is concidered inhumane all in itself by the majority of the country. What ever happened to having on hand doctors/ vets that use to acompany these events ? Why does the dog have to die after the fight is over ? Getting beat in the ring is bad enough but being kicked , slammed, electricuted and or hung & drowned ?

I understand the whole term of culling , that is said to be done to preserve the breed but I don't agree with that at all. It appears more so for cash than anything else. The old dog fights of years past always had doc/ vets on hand why is that if they were going to just kill the dog anyways after it failed its owner in the ring ?

Serious question, when dogs are being conditioned for a match , alot of work goes into raising such dogs. Isn't there some form of bonding ? I mean the dogs were raised from pups to adult so for atleast 2 years people get to spend time with the dogs , how can people just kill them if they fail in the ring ? That dog did everything it could to please the owner and pays the price with its life if it fails either by the opponent or by the hands of the master.
Why stop the fight if people are just gonna kill it after the match is over ?

I'd rather die from my opponent than by the supposedly loving hand that fed me for failing him. I just will never understand that. If anyone could answer that i'm all ears, im not casting stones just asking for information to help me understand.

 

Dog fighting is set up to make a curr quit.If the dog doesn`t want to be there it doesn`t scratch or it jumps the pit.There for the other dog doesn`t get the chance to maul it to death.Compatition over.That is what these humaniac ideots can`t understand.Weather or not the owner culls the dog or not is there business.

 

Thanks for the reply Wayne , I understand the cur jumping the ring and quitting, im talking about the dog that doesn't quit but is clearly over matched by his opponent. And your right, if its your dog its your business was just hoping for some more understanding of what the sport has become.

 

I understand if I had a good dog that went for over an hour and was just over matched there is no way I`d cull it.Just take it home and letem sleep on it awile.

 

well wether or not vick is guilty is to be left up to 12 of his peers. and after reading some replies here i have to say it's pretty clear that there are some sick folks here at game-dog. hanging, drowning, electrcution are acceptable means of culling. what ever happened to spaying or nuetering the animal so it could not reproduce. if u don't want to feed it anymore find someone worthy and let them feed the dog. right here is why the problems with this board will never be resolved. some folks actually think crap like this is ok. that fighting dogs is still somehow an acceptable form of leisure. we may as well get some christians and jews and toss them to the lions too. i am by no means a humaniac but can proudly say G-D blessed me with common sence.

 

I think anytime there is a bust, it looks bad on the breed. The general public is not going to see the difference between Michael Vick's bust and Floyd Boudreaux's bust. They don't know that a "punk" dogfighter is any different than an old-school dogman. A dogfighter is a dogfighter in their eyes, and it will eventually lead to discussion like "if Pit Bulls aren't bad dogs, then why do they use them in dogfighting?"

So, I think this is as bad as somebody getting hurt by one of our dogs. It gets people thinking about and focused on our breed, and that never ends well.

 

Jeeperino, the matches I read about were $20,000 and up. I never saw anything about hundred dollar matches.

Second, there are witnesses that are now speaking against Vick. I'm not there so I don't know the facts, but it is now up to those witnesses to provide proof that will convict Vick if he's infact guilty. From the article I read, Vick a) was at a match & paid a winning dog's owner directly & b) was the one responsible for culling a dog by picking it up & slamming it into the ground. Unfortuntely, when other people have been caught, they have no reason not to bring you down to....and they will. Vick should kiss his football career goodbye IMO.

Third, a bullet is cheap & painless. From what I've seen & know (the physiological aspects of) with gassing, most electrocutions, & hanging, NONE of those are instantaneous. Gassing can take upwards of 30 minutes. Hanging is a strangulation method which can take anywhere from a few minutes to 30+ minutes. And most people don't have access to enough volts to kill a dog instantaneously. Hell, many people are struck directly by lightening & they still survive. I'm not getting into a pissing contest, but in my opinion, these forms of culling are rediculous.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/18/vick/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Michael Vick indicted by federal grand jury in dogfighting case
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><STYLE type=text/css> td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }</STYLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspwidearticlebody>By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
July 18, 2007

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<SMALL>AP - Jul 17, 6:00 pm EDT</SMALL>
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RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- When a Bad Newz Kennels dog was wounded in a losing fight, NFL star Michael Vick was consulted before the animal was doused with water and electrocuted.

That's just one of the gruesome details that emerged Tuesday when the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three others were indicted by a federal grand jury.

The four were charged with competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines.

The 18-page indictment, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, alleged the 27-year-old Vick and his co-defendants began the dogfighting operation in early 2001, the former Virginia Tech star's rookie year as the No. 1 pick.

The operation was centered at a property Vick owned in Surry County, where a fence shielded prying eyes from the back, and the two-story brick home was surrounded by fencing in the front, with several black buildings further back. Unlike previous documents, which did not name Vick, the indictment is littered with his name, including this tidbit -- Vick was known as "Ookie" in the dogfighting world.



If convicted of all the charges, Vick and the others -- Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach; Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton -- could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution.

A woman who answered the phone at the home of Vick's mother, Brenda Boddie, said "no comment" and quickly hung up.

Telephone messages left at the offices and home of Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward, and an e-mail sent to his office were not returned.

While the Falcons and the NFL said little Tuesday, John Goodwin of the Humane Society of the United States said the details were especially troubling.

About eight young dogs were put to death at the Surry County home after they were found not ready to fight in April 2007, the indictment said. They were killed "by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

"Some of the grisly details in these filings shocked even me, and I'm a person who faces this stuff every day," Goodwin said. "I was surprised to see that they were killing dogs by hanging them, and one dog was killed by slamming it to the ground. Those are extremely violent methods of execution -- they're unnecessary and just sick."

Purses for the fights ranged from hundreds of dollars to the thousands, and participants and spectators often placed side bets on the outcome, according to the indictment.

After two Bad Newz Kennels dogs lost fights in March 2003, the indictment alleged Vick gave a bag containing $23,000 to the owner of the winning dogs.

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<SMALL>AP - Jul 17, 5:58 pm EDT</SMALL>
More Photos</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Started in early 2002, according to the indictment, Bad Newz Kennels began purchasing pit bulls to train as fighters. Eventually, the defendants bought shirts and headbands "representing and promoting their affiliation."

After an April police raid on the property, Vick said he was rarely at the house, however, and had no idea that it might have been used in a criminal enterprise. He blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity and pledged to be more careful.

He has since said very little, citing the advice of his attorneys.

But Tuesday the NFL was quick to decry the alleged animal abuse.

"The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said.

Vick and the Falcons are due to report to training camp July 25.

"Obviously, we are disturbed by today's news," the team said in a statement posted on its Web site, apologizing to fans for the negative publicity. "We will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for."

Vick and the others are accused of "knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal fighting venture" and conducting a business enterprise involving gambling, as well as buying, transporting and receiving dogs for the purposes of an animal fighting venture.

The indictment said dogfights were held at the Virginia property and dog owners brought animals from six states, including New York and Texas.

Local authorities have been investigating since an April 25 drug raid at the property. On June 7, officials with the Department of Agriculture with help from state police executed their own search warrant and found the remains of seven dogs.

Surry County prosecutor Gerald G. Poindexter said he didn't know of the indictment before it was filed, and said he's not sure how the county will continue its separate case.

At the start, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting. About half the dogs were tethered to car axles with heavy chains that allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact -- an arrangement typical for fighting dogs, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Before fights, participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance.

Sometimes, dogs weren't fed to "make it more hungry for the other dog." Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents. Associated Press Writer Dionne Walker contributed to this report.

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you must spread some reputation.....great post Mia....

 

I've been following this forum for a long time but this is my first post. From what I've read jeeperino, you would fit right in with Vic and the others that were arrested. You seem to have a " Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up " attitude.

 

I do not know whether all that is true or not ...., however, each one who things such a thing is right should go to the uncle doctor and allow to examine his head. And if somebody believes that every real Bulldogmann has to shoot dogs like rabbits .... THIS is BS!:mad:

 

At the start, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting. About half the dogs were tethered to car axles with heavy chains that allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact -- an arrangement typical for fighting dogs, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Statments like this irritate me. They may have had a proper chain set up. The media always blows shit up like the rape stand comment, the treadmill. I am waiting for all the facts to come out. But I have a gut feeling that people in Vicks camp will take the fall. I may be wrong in the long run.

And I agree with Baha that the general public will not know the difference.

 

The only question I have is how do they know he done these things to the dogs. Its a he said she said acusation with no visual proof (that I've read about) that he done it.
I belive the whole story was blown out of perportion just like every other pit bull story on the news gets. Maybe some one got pissed off at him and turned him in, just to get back.
Who knows what really went on and happend. This is kinda turning out like the Floyd stuff from what I've got. I just hope it all gets settled in a decent manner and the breed is not put out to be a bad breed to own.

 

why the Christian and Jew comment? There is a big difference between the life of a human being and a dog. I dont like that comment.

 

yea, i was a bit uncomfortable with that comment too..

 

I think some people take out the loss to their egos on the animal if they stop/quit/whatever reason they have for culling their animal.

Jeep's right, every person can do what they wish with their animals. It's not up to us to say it was wrong, inhumane, cruel, etc.

I just think (only from what I've heard) some people take out their frustration on their charge if it fails. If they traded places with their dog, and it was going to cull them, I bet the dog would have enough sense to make it painless.

That's my only gripe, how some folks go about their business. Again, not my place to say anything, but I would just make it as easy as possible.

If you expect your animal to knock on death's door for you, show it some respect. If I ever have to put my dog(s) down, even if it bit me or another person, I'd take the time to walk it out in a field, dig a hole with it, toss a handful of treats in the hole, *click* and then it's done. Bury and go home (I've done this with several dogs, two from old age, one from biting a neighbor kid). I do think I have a bond with my animals, and I'd show it some decency it putting it to sleep.

But no one else really has a right to say how to do their business. If the state's humane society says electrocution is an acceptable form to destroy an animal, then no one can say much. Write a letter to your state's humane society.