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Champ Today Cur Tommorrow

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by preme, Feb 3, 2009.

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  1. preme

    preme CH Dog

    alot of currs went on to produce gammed dogs and eve dg dogs so who knows i would think long termm% wise..
     
    preme, Jun 25, 2009
    #21
  2. Smith's Bulldogs

    Smith's Bulldogs Big Dog

    a wise dogman once said that the dog is either genetically capable of producing good dogs whether he/she is themselves. i don't think gameness itself is inherited just all the other ingredients. it's an individual characteristic or mindset, imo. that doesn't mean i would go sticking a bunch of cur dogs together either but knowing a family of dogs will give you a higher % of good dogs, regardless of a cur dog that stood the line after an hour several generations back. there would be alot of broken hearts on here if that were the case. it's all a gamble anyways.:rolleyes:
     
    Smith's Bulldogs, Jun 26, 2009
    #22
  3. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    First, let's dispell a couple of incomplete adages. I've always believed that if you are in the brood pen, putting two dogs together that "surprise" should not be involved at all. If you are surprised when they don't quit yet not surprised when the do, then you are preconceiving. And.....if you are breeding them "expecting" them to quit, then you are breeding the wrong two dogs.
    I'm not surprised no matter what a dog does, but I am not breeding them, begging for the worst to be the case, either, or I wouldn't be breeding them.
    Another adage I feel is said without completion is: "They'll all quit". That is unprovable. It can only be said as a matter of opinion. I'm not disrespecting that opinion, but it IS indeed opinion.
    SOME dogs DIDN'T quit. It would be impossible to bring them back to prove they would, therefore, the burden of proof that they ALL will or would is on those who say they all will. That's impossible, given some didn't and cannot be brought back to do so. This makes it opinion. Maybe a sensible opinion, but still, an opinion.
    To the thread title: I think it merits remembering that there are rare instances whereby a dog so-called "stopped" that need some understanding and realism applied. For instance....Sandman. He lost in 3:16. He did not come across, however.........How many dogs are bred every day, deemed as gametested who went through a micro of what he did, and did it against the best there is around, such as a Buck? Close to none.
    So, there is a bit of consideration to be made there. Some degree of comparable realism.
    Winner doesn't always equal game. Sometimes the level of competition declairs the truth afterall. One may win vs. mediocre dogs, then lose when it meets a better dog. Some dogs may have the tools to bring out the cur in a dog who has otherwise dominated against lesser competition. It's just the way it works.
    Notice too, that most dogs considered as BAD dogs, win more times than a dog which has to show his mettle. They usually win in shorter order and take less wear and tear over time. Then, if asked to do it again, and meet a capable opponent who has gameness, they pack it in.
    In summary, the variances and potential differences in situations are too many to answer the question with any one, set answer.
    One last incomplete adage: "Good dogs are where you find them". True, but realize that you are more likely to find them in some places than in others. That should be included in that adage. LOL
    My two first pieces of advice to young'ns are, one, "Don't get ahead of yourself", and two, "Let the dogs tell YOU what to breed.....don't preconceive".

    In Sport.....TDK
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2009
    TDK, Jun 26, 2009
    #23
  4. Ja-net

    Ja-net Banned

    Great post TDK.....now my grammer aint no where near as good as TDK's so bear with me LOL.....The adage or term They all will or would quit is not the right term IMO as to what many of you are talking about as some dogs did not quit and some dogs did quit like TDK stated but IMO its not weather a dog did or did not quit its about if a dog CAN quit.....hence my adage of They CAN all quit meaning that every dog has a option and can choose to make a choice if he wants to quit hence the term CAN quit. Now if a dog was a machine and was programmed to NOT quit then I would say he cannot never ever quit because the machine doesnt have a choice or option.....but these dogs are living breathing creatures that CAN think and CAN make there own choices on any given day,situation or circumstance to quit or not....even if the dog did not quit on that time does it mean he CANNOT ever quit?.....shit did that make sense? LMAO I told yall my grammer aint that good but I hope ya get the point if not too bad I aint explaining it again LOL.

    My saying is>They all CAN quit they just didnt quit YET.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2009
    Ja-net, Jun 27, 2009
    #24
  5. Virgil dogs

    Virgil dogs Big Dog

    I have heard this said by many so called experts,not meaning you Titch,but I say they need to get a new bloodline cause thats what its all about.I mean what do we breed for if not for gameness?I have seen Jack Russels that were dead game!I know theres a lot of you that will snap when readding that but its true.The bulldog does not have a monopoly on gameness.In fact there are SOME bloodlines of terriers that throw more dead game dogs than our beloved bulldogs.Talk to some of the hunters in Europe and you will be suprized at what other dogs can and will do.
    The list of dogs that quit after becomming champions is very long but its better to know that a dog is a cur before you base your yard on it,dont you think?Most dogmen would rather know for sure what they had.Now a puppy peddler's is CRUSHED when there champion quits although I didnt know many that would try for # 4.Any time a puppy peddler lost the exuses were priceless lol.It takes a lot of balls to go for that grandchampion.
     
    Virgil dogs, Jun 27, 2009
    #25
  6. Smith's Bulldogs

    Smith's Bulldogs Big Dog

    you're right Vd gameness is present in other terrier breeds as well...just look at some of those nuttall's dogs (black fell terriers). ....game as any bulldog.
     
    Smith's Bulldogs, Jun 27, 2009
    #26
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    the problem with that is that most would not know the difference between shock and standing the line. a dog in shock is not a cur, but one that is truly in shock and stands is labeled a cur. it falls into the adage of, you have to know what you are looking at before you can know what to look for....


     
    slim12, Jun 28, 2009
    #27
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