Do you really need pedigree for breeding?

lol let me put this real easy some my dogs are papered registered and some aren't but i know all there peds and don't need to register them but i i ussally do but i don't need to register dogs to be a respected breeder the best breeder i know doesn't and will probly never register his dogs as long as you know how your dog is bred you have some what of historical path for the future

 

If so then please explain how they managed to evolve for decades before the ADBA and the UKC existed?

Putting two dogs end to end and registering what comes out of that is NOT respecting the breeders that came before us. Respecting those breeders entails continuing the methods and techniques that were used throughout the history of the breed that made it what it is. If you want to respect those breeders then you must uphold the same high standards of selection and competition that they did.

You lack a great deal of information and knowledge therefore your statement is based on opinion and not fact. You believe that because you have paid money to someone you don't know and who lives off of your payment is preserving the breed. You believe that having a dog pull a cart with some weight on it or stand in a garden of grass in a nice pose is what makes a bulldog. There lies the difference.
Doggy weight pulling and beauty pageants are very fun and entertaining, we enjoy going to them but they do absolutely nothing as far as preserving any breed, the only thing they preserve is their bank account.

If you are not maintaining the standards that were set on these dogs by the past breeders then you can paper them from here to China and back and you will still be doing nothing to preserve the breed.

 

D,,, you know dam well what you need to do to be a respected breeder and it has nothing to do with any papers my friend,,, I know U know this.

 

Yes it started with dogs with out the ancestry written down. Then they started to track and write it down so the dogs wouldn't get too inbreed and then decide to cross. Tracking the great dogs in your dogs ancestry's is how the wonderful breed that we have today became so great. A registry is a company and tool that helps preserve the integrity of the written pedigree, and with the advancement of DNA complimenting the registries, we will only see more advancement of these tools and thus the advancement of our breed. It takes time to create history. So we will see in 100 years which offspring live on and become the bloodlines of the future. The ones with out paperwork or the is ones with.

 

l have to agree with ya!..........but lmo for someone to know all the mutts in a 4 generation would have to be a true oldtimer or very very close to one who has put 15+ years to breeding his own line,and that's the only way l would have it,but "you could say to who ever".......it all depends who you know and trust.

 

We have completely different views and understanding about the history, purpose and use of this breed. Unfortunately I can find no common ground on which to sustain this conversation with you so I respectfully bow out.
Best of luck with your papers and the advancement of the breed.

 

Easy explanation - handwritten pedigrees. Just b/c the ADBA or UKC didn't exist does not mean the dog men of old did not have pedigrees on their dogs. It just means they were hand written & kept by the breeder instead of being kept by a kennel club. Because of today's day & age this a lot of people are going back to trend of keeping hand written records. The imporant thing is the records WERE there.

Blessings ...

 

ABK, please read my earlier posts where I state that knowledge about how dogs are bred is essential.

 

look a hand written pedigreed dog is no w3ere near the same as a byb ghetto dawg now you get it :mad:

 

also when i said the best breeder i know doesnt register there dogs trust that he has kept records and many ppl know who im talking about the you get respected is to get good dogs and beter yet produce good dogs that can produce themselves and preform on there own as well

 

I'm not sure by definition you can say that I am ignorant, lack information and that my opinions are not based on fact. By definition I have a large base of tacit and explicit knowledge. I have been around gamebred dogs since 1989. I was introduced by my uncle that got dogs from Howard Heinzl. I am in a popular APBT book a couple of times, mentioned in a couple popular yard videos, and have been to have traveled and have seen thousands of dogs, and been to about a dozen yards/kennels or so, read and have special ordered almost every book on the subject, I used the get the SDJ, Gazette, Bits on pits, American Warrior, American Gamedog Times and Your friend and mine. I have been asked to speak as an expert on local TV about APBTs, and as well as to testify at a trial for a defendant, and been to lots of get together, conventions, and pig pickens, and gatherings. I hardly sell dogs, and I have a pup that is my fourth generation. All dogman I know, know the pedigrees to their dogs, some do not register, some register some times, but most register the majority of the time. Weather you trust a breeder or not doesn't mean that the pedigrees presented are true- paper work helps as confirmation. All that being said... I commend you on sticking to your argument, and not resorting to name calling or other shenanigans. We will have to agree to disagree, and when you wish me luck on my papers, I say thanks, because I have bulldogs that back up the paperwork.

 

Now THAT is how you preserve the breed, not by registering them. JMO

 

Oh and,, I bred my bitch to the stud dog at that time of the person who Heinzl gave his dogs to. He told me how the dog was bred, I trust him with my life and I believe the dog is bred the way he told me. My bitch was on his yard for a while before I went to pick her up. She has no papers, that breeding is not registered. Her brothers and sisters are all registered however. Does that make her any less of a bulldog? Everything we have comes from that breeding, none are registered and the last time I sold a dog was over 8 years ago so we have everything we have bred here.
I keep records of everything we do, but I don't register because I don't see any point to it and I can use that money to feed my dogs.

 

I agree................

 

The write up in SDJ Oct issue has a good read about the inportance of pedigree!

 

send me a copy. If you don't register at least write a ped. but registering keeps it real for those who might not know you.

 

Papers and pedigree are an entirely different thing. In my opinion, there are many more bulldogs out there that lacks a paper trail than there are bulldogs out there that does have a paper trail, and by bulldog I mean a dog that can work. If you don't believe me, ask any hog dogger that breeds and utilizes the bulldog. They'll know the pedigree and they'll know how they are bred, but most likely they won't have any papers. They were just bred to work and to not quit on a hog. Also pertaining towards a serious breeder, a serious breeder is one that breeds for what he/she wants and could careless about what anyone thinks. If you are breeding for pretty papers or breeding for what's in right now, that just makes you a peddler. Also paper hanging is quite common now, especially in the bully world and has also occured in the past. Chances are, your dog's papers have been misrepresented if you go back far enough.

 

again give me a healthy pretty papered female from someone thats a good honest breeder, and through a good eye and selection i will make what i want.

 

and i think thats definitely true... that one particular dog is so watered down that i think it would be best to look at the dogs in the first 2 gens... i saw some older papers and they only went back to the grandparents...

 

There have been some very good points made here. But I think it should be made clear that no one here is advocating getting a dog from a shelter or rescue & breeding it.

And gringo, my apologies. I did not see where you had mentioned handwritten pedigrees. My bad. :o

Happy holidays!