Views on APBT X SBT?

either way now they are not the same breed plain and simple a cross = mutts mutts and more mutts. i like a staffy bull in working for don't get me wrong even if they are or were the same genetically but different in performance what would be the reason for the cross??? an APBT should be bred for performance end of story so no reason to fix something that doesn't need fixing and actually im not 100% sure that the genetic make up of a staffy bull would be the same as an APBT seeing as they were the same dog many many years ago but they were bred to different strains of dog to create each breed just what i get from the research i have done

 

I find a lot of the dogs leading back to the same places/yards, way back, Some dogs go back through all the clubs, and some do not..
I look at it like this, you are born in America, you are American.
One large person is green, One skinny person who is gold. both born in America.
Both breed freely, as tought, and come up with some different offspring, now we call the Green American, and Gold Americans. Is one better than the other?
People can say oooooo yeah or oooooooooooooooooooo no----
Seems that there is a civil issue similar to our own Country History, accept this time its dogs.
dont hurt to think outside the []

 

Ok. What are my views on APBT X SBT? (Are we speaking of the ENGLISH SBT or the AST, or both?)
Go to the top professional breeders of each of these dogs, and they'll all tell you, "Not the same breeds."
Next, the SBT was from England, Staffordshire county. The APBT didn't come from these SBT's either....http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier/index.cfm
According to the never fail AKC, these dogs originated in the 19th century, and the fighting dogs of America are recorded as far back as the 18th century.
So I won't discuss this breed, as that there is enough to eliminate it from being the same breed, abd the SBT is an English breed not American.
Now, as for the AST, http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/
If you notice the AKC makes no comparison to the APBT. Other histories give account of the SBT and AST, as well as APBT's, being crossed. It's not allowed by any registry now.
The AST was accepted in the year 1936 in the AKC, as the Staffordshire Terrier. In 1972, due to the English demands, the name was changed to AST.
Due to the years of specific breeding, regardless of the history, they are truly separate breeds. When a pup is born, it comes out like its grandparents and great gp's.
That's all that matters. So after years and years of breding untested dogs, gameness was lost, as their breeders detested the [].
And of the two breeds, the AST is more likely to bite than the APBT. (See Stratton's Truth of the APBT, chapter: The Pretenders.)
And if the dogs are crossed, and a person gets bit, who gets blamed? THE "Pit-Bulls!"
Another thing, if fighting dogs were in America in the 1700's, and the SBT's didn't exist until the late 1800's,
how can the APBT be from those dogs? So to me, they're different breeds, genetically, as well as physically.
I'm not saying the SBT and AST are not good dogs, just not the same dogs as APBT's.

 

"according to the never fail AKC" lol its a good one.

@ EAGLE I think your trying to confuse us all, nice attempt

 

the op was regarding brittish staffordshire terrier x apbt as i am from scotland as im sure it says on my profile?
i believe the first bulldog crossed with terrier resulted in something very close to brittish staffordshire, blue paul terrier and red smut and this is where all types of bulldogs come from

 

SBT did'nt exist till 1935 when show people and the KC gave them that name and a standard before this they ware the same breed as the APBT, just as AST before being recognized by the AKC in 1936 ware APBTs...R

 

I do agree the 3 breed are too different that they are no longer the same breed...the APBT is the real mc'coy and what the other two breeds looked like and ware before the KC's got their hands on them...but in the British isles I have seen some very good crosses between APBT and SBT, it was usually done to improve the SBT never the other way round.....R

 

anyone got anymore of the staffordxpit pictures in uk

 

Maternal grand dam of this bitch was a pure SBT, "Jenny" won in a couple of different country's she was very good...R

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=365651

 

Miley's "Susie" is a SBT, she is the maternal grand dam of this bitch http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=365651 , "Jenny" won in a couple of country's and was a very good bitch....R

 

just dont.... how hard can it be to find a suited apbt

 

thanks ricky thats a nice black n tan id have that at my place

 

http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier/history.cfm
You are correct, it wasn't (the SBT) "recognized" by the KC of England until then, but was developed by the "coal miners in Staffordshire" in the 19th century..(click on breed standard on left if you check link.)
That means the "educated" people didn't recognize it. They sure know how to mess things up.
SBT the same breed? Impossible. Lightner got his dogs from his grandpa, uncles, and father, who had them prior to the civil war. This was before the dogs from Staffordshire were even developed, and there is
no record of the Lightner's ever importing dogs. And the dogs way back in my new pup's pedigree trace back to Con Feeley, and Jim Corcoran, who both imported dogs from Ireland. Bruce's Jerry was an Old
Family Red, and holds an important spot in OFRN history, being a direct import which is traceable. These were Irish dogs, not English.

Yes, the AST was once the same breed, but only select strains of APBT's were used. Primarily the Colby dogs. But not every bloodline.
And gameness was lost, due to the direction of the AST breeders, who admit it.

Yes, I have heard of several breeds that have been crossed with APBT's to improve them.

 

the dogs imported by colby from england and ireland was staffords before they was given the name stafford

 

The KC did'nt just f##ked up the breed they f##ked the history, the only bullterriers are the show ones with egg shaped head, all pitbulls are bulldogs, check out any bull baiting prints by H Alken, a artist of the time, bulldogs are the same dog as pitbulls...R

 

As for the name Staffordshire Bull Terrier, these dogs came from every part of the British isles, England ,Scotland, Wales and Ireland, the KC gave them that name and the same History as the (English)Bull Terrier, ....but if you check the pedigrees of the Lightner dogs they all trace back to the Irish and English dogs !...I think all lot of people look at the little show SBT of today and don't realize that a 100 years ago they ware same shap and breed as the APBT.....R

 

Judge this to a SBT, Colby's Galtie. How is this dog a SBT if his parents were both bred in Ireland?
This dog was considered one of the cornerstones of the Colby strain, and was a.k.a "The Irish Dog."
The reason the name Staffordshire was used was because the AKC wouldn't accept a breed with the word "Pit" in it.
http://www.colbypitbull.com/

 

Said it before and wil say it again, the day they started to breed for recognition was the day the ball started to roll down hill for those breeds.
We al know the end result, SBT's standing over a near 15 inch weiging over 40 lbs or AST that are almost as big as dogo's and weiging over 77 lbs.

The 3 current breeds today are not at al the same and are bred for different standards.
Cross between an APBT and SBT had no value if they are not working animals.
I also found out that it is only show people and pet owners who are against these type of breedings, the working world doesn't give a sh#t as long as the dogs work.

What's the diff between a working man who breeds to working dogs together, no matter their heratige or someone who breeds pure APBT but only do linebreedings and such to say 'i have a chinamen dog or a snooty dog' but they do not know 1 bit about working or the traits that does dog were know for.

It's there were al the drama begins in the first place, breeders who advertise that their dogs give nice blue offspring.
1 new member started that she doesn't think her dog is a true AST but on her site she stil offers him as a stud and that he also gives nice blue pups.
That's where the sh*t begins not with crossbred dogs for working purposses.
The ones that did worked, worked like hell and some were better matched then most APBT today that people breed to, apbt people would breed to a 15 minute CH in an instant who never went al the way just to say they keep the line pure or that they have a Ch dog as sire or dam.

 

cool STAFFORD....thanks for posting.

 

Are the standards in the KC of England different than the AKC?
Just curious, since the AKC "disqualifies" black & tan colored dogs....
Shows what they know, since that B & T was a winner...