faults in structure

hello all, new to the boards, been reading alot of posts and learning alot of things I didnt know... Personally I come from Am Bullies and thats what I currently feed. I compete in conformation shows, and love to produce sound structure with minimal faults. I LOVE PITBULLS and the history behind them. but being as I dont hunt or have any clue how to train handle or even do a keep I dont raise True Bulldogs. I am interrested in finding some good dog men in the area that can teach me what its all about. until then I will continue my studies through reading...

being from a show background structural faults is a huge thing in my program. For example I wont breed a kink tail or short tail. I dont breed dogs with extreme easty westy feet or weak pasterns, dont wana see any cow hock dogs when I look out my back door. roach backs or high rears is a huge fault in my book.

Now I know that the only way to breed true Bull Dogs is to test them to see if they are curs. but although I dont test my stock I do try to pride myself in keeping my dogs as true to form in every other aspect as the original APBT

after reading several threads on the game board I have started to realize that I am doing no such thing and I am really only breeding for a Show standard. I know this subject has been touched on before but I just wanted to ask for myself about a few things.

When it comes to the true A.P.B.T. are faults something that are totally non relevant???

things such as weak pasterns, high rear, easty westy, all have an affect on the movement of the animal. kink tails, the tail is an extension of the spine and a kink tail can be a sign of future issues same with short tails or natural bob tails.

When it comes to producing better stock Game Dogs are all these issues really NON RELEVANT??? In the opinion of real Dog Men????



here are a few pics of a few of my dogs and my idea of what a Am Bully should look like!!! NOT no 12 inch tall 85lb smash face mutts u see all over the place now days!!!!

I have nothing but love and respect for the true gamers!!! hope to find some GOOD dog men in my area so I can get a true appreciation for the history behind the dog and what it took back in the ol days to breed True Bulldogs.... so dont be to ruff on me and my curs....

 

I don't see anything wrong with your dogs they look clean. In my opinion the uneducated Bully people cause all this tension with the apbt crowd because they call their dogs apbts. They also try to compare both breeds and say that their Bullies have the same performance capacity as an APBT. However on the flipside there are a lot of APBT wanna bee posers that hate on anything that is not gamebred, they go around bullying people online showing of their dog's papers when at the end of the day their dogs sit on a couch, chase a flirt pole or bite a tug like every other pet dog out there.

There are some great rational people here that do the APBT justice and don't parade around boards picking fights and talking like clowns. If I was you I would contact Boogieman, he is one heck of leader and he does wonderful things for the breed. Just be aware he won't sugar coat anything and might throw in the word "turd" at least once lol

I own a Bully my self that looks nothing like what you see on the elite edge board but at the end of the day I know I feed a dog bred for companionship and not performance. Not everyone needs a working dog and not everyone should own one either.

 

Welcome to g-d . Good place to learn. Here's a suggestion, fix it so the pup/dog in pic 3 cant jump over the fence and possibly hang itsself. I've heard of it happening more than once.

 

Thanks for the advice.... its been took care of !!!!

 

Performance animals like cars. Never bred or built to suit a look. It is about performance. Those that breed these dogs keep litters. The best of these litters. In performance. Which will be agility, power, wind, and mental capacity. ...... When you breed like this you get the same dogs for a century.

Funny how the performance dogs look the same as they did 100 yrs ago. This new purse or shoe thing aka Bully. They are accessories. These people really loved the dogs. Money never brought into it. The real lovers see the structural damage made and well it's hard to respect anyone mutating a dog to look like his desire.

Dogs posted are not bad in looks. Try getting them into some performance competitions. Running, shutzhund*, pulling, spring pole. Walk them alot.

You will see what dogs perform better. What dogs don't get hot and winded as easy. These will be your best dogs. From these pic color and looks.

 

No, they're not like cars.
Money has always been a part of it.
.........never mind

 

Smo King, why don't you get your basics in order first.

 

???? please elaborate ...

 

you need to figure out what your goal is for having dogs and then get dogs that fit your needs. until then just keep learning

 

This subject is interesting to me as well. It is along the lines of several similar threads. In theory, the people who created the conformation standard did so by looking at the top-performing dogs. If most of the top dogs had a particular rear angulation, backline, spring of rib, skull proportion, etc., then those features were used in the standard. With all other things equal (training, diet, wind, drive & gameness) a dog with the best conformation will have a distinct advantage. This is because conformation affects balance and power. But slight faults in conformation coupled with high drive, gameness and wind will not hold a great dog back. Additionally, faults in conformation will impact certain activities more than others. For example, elbows out would probably have more of a deleterious effect on running speed than combat.

Standards are created so that people separated by time or space can evaluate dogs and hopefully maintain the integrity of a breed. However, dogs evaluated based only on conformation are likely to lose gameness, drive, wind, etc., unless these qualities are also measured and bred for. Also, in the conformation world, exaggerations often creep in due to vagueness in the standard. For example, if the standard indicates a need for power, then dogs that look more muscular will do more winning in the show ring, and subsequently produce more pups, influencing the breed in that direction.

It has been mentioned on other threads that some dual champions exist...conformation and performance.

 

Benthere that's a great post .. Question how does one become qualified to judge these ADBA shows? I thought a lot of the judges at these shows were retired dog men. But the ones who have never had any experience handling and working the dogs how do they become judges are they voted in by other club members or their peers? Just curious lol.

 

Sadie, no one can judge what a real bulldog looks like because they aint based on looks, they are based on PERFORMANCE.

 

Speedo I agree I was just more curious to know how a judge becomes a judge at the beauty show contests and what qualifies them to be in the position to judge any of the dogs out at these shows strictly based off their looks against the standard that was written. Benthere had made a good point if you don't understand the standard as it was written as far as the working type dog goes how can you interpret it correctly. But I see your point ...

 

Judges are sanctioned by the ADBA by doing an extensive written test. Not multiple choice type questions, but write out extensive answers type questions. They also have to do 2 fun shows. Complete shows just like a sanctioned show except it's not. They have to take pictures of each dog they place in the fun show and explain why they picked it. Then they have to shadow a senior judge for 1, and possibly 2 real sanctioned shows. I can't remember for sure on the last part if it's 1 or 2. After each class, the 3 winners stay in the ring for a couple minutes, and the senior judge and judge trying to be sanctioned discuss why each dog was picked. Then the ADBA decides if you are ready or not. They do NOT have to sanction you if they feel you are not up to the task.

Now I'm PRETTY SURE this is the criteria for becoming a judge, but not 100% set in stone about it. If not it's very close but I could have possibly left something out or not have it exactly correct.

OP those are decent enough looking bullies I'll give ya credit for that. I also agree your chains should be moved out away from that fence to keep the dogs from possibly going over and hanging themselves. The chain should be far away from the barrels and enough slack for them to go all the way in the house and that's it. Pack some straw into those barrels too. A couple bails of straw goes a long way for warmth and comfort for the dog instead of just laying in a plastic barrel.

 

Thanks B very clear explanation of what I was looking for I appreciate it...

I don't know if this was already mentioned to the OP so if it was forgive me but this dog needs a collar don't put chains around your dogs neck and then tether him up with a chain around his neck get him a nice well fitted comfortable collar.

 

Yeah it's an embedded collar waiting to happen plus it's not comfortable for the dogs neck for any lengthy period of time and can cause the dog to loose hair around the neck area plus it just doesn't offer any support to the dogs neck while on the chain or lead. I am glad he has a regular collar on I know some people do use heavy chains and lock pads as actual collars mostly the people I see doing this are bully owners so I thought I would mention it while it may look cool to some people it does nothing but hurt the dog. And yes this place has a bunch of good people and info. Good luck with your dogs!

 

Smo how are you keeping the barrels dry? Also why is whole end cut out for the opening? All the straw will be drug out by the chain like that. It's also alot easier for them to stay warm and dry if a smaller opening is used. Here with a 10"-11" hole cut out for an opening and the barrels facing southeast, the wind and rain will ocassionally change enough to try and blow in. You can take one barrel, cut it to make awnings for 6 barrels. You can also drill 3-4 small drain holes from front to back across the bottom of the barrels. Its surprising how much water they can carry in with thier feet and chain if they run in and out alot. To keep the barrels from rolling you can bolt a short piece of 2"x6" across the bottom of the front. Here's a thread with some info. http://www.gamedog.com/showthread.phpt=46710&highlight=barrel+houses Here'a a pic of the type I use to use.

 

Maybe this one will work.
http://www.game-dog.com/showthread.php?t=46710&highlight=barrel+houses