Old Family Red

thats a fine lookin dog !
is this a modern example of an OFRN ?
when i mention brindle i mean the traditional brindle not red but yeah i have seen a red brindle with a red nose but never read any historical accounts of them .

where did i say this ?

which is exatly why it makes an intresting discussion . you have to remember the ppl who created the whole tale of these ofr 's where ppl who made a living off dogs , even today one dogman will say somting to make his dogs out to be a little differant than the next fellas dogs, never mind fishermans tales coz they can never come no where near a dogmans tale lol.

its a shame the same can be said for the maority of the modern OFRN.

YES I BELIIVE THIS WAS DONE IN AMERICA WHERE THE STRAIN WAS CREATED.

And do you not think that i an Irishman would like the credit to go to Ireland for these game to the back bone little red,red nosed dogs , but i just dont belive they did come from here . i strongly belive they are an American creation albeit from irish stock !

 

True, cromsboss..(about Braddock & Pincher...but what is known is that they were winners.)
I tried to be quick on the subject to avoid the AmStaff debate from entering this thread...
But my point was that regardless of what dogs were the "foundation" of today's Am Staffs,
one certain fact is this: the AST is not a game dog, nor ever will be again. So why even compare these dogs to dogs they are nothing like today?
All that matters in a pups ped are the first 14 dogs: parents, grand parents, and great grandparents. That's it.
At first there may have been matching accepted by AST breeders, but those days are gone now.
No modern AST today could be considered worthy to hold the title of "game-bred A(p)BT."

As the dogs claimed to be behind the AST were true Pit Dogs,
I feel it doesn't matter today...they are no longer like their anscestors..
One dog, Runyan's Colorado Imp II, was used for the AST, after he was defeated by Searcy Jeff at the 1936 Oklahoma convention.
This has been called the battle of the Lightner dogs, as well as the battle between the red and the blues.
Since this time, the blues went the road of the AKC, to my knowledge.
I do not consider the blues to be A(p)BT's any longer, regardless of what's on paper...they are more in tune with the "Bully" crowd.
With the overall poor health defects found in blues today, they would have been weeded just from the [].

I hope to get the info I need within a week.....

 

Thanks...Yes, I would call her a great modern example of a modern OFRN.

"all pure strains are soild in colour its when the are outcrosse, mixed or loosely bred we see pied dogs ."
This is where I thought you said it.

"its a shame the same can be said for the maority of the modern OFRN."
Which is why the Old Family Red Nose Registry was created, to preserve the strain according to the old school standards.
The wrong people breed these dogs for the wrong reasons, and the quality deteriorates fast...
They breed soley for color....and that color, to their shame, is green!
The blues went bad due to overbreeding for their color, above their performance.
Hopefully the OFRNR can prevent this from happening to the OFRN strain.



"YES I BELIIVE THIS WAS DONE IN AMERICA WHERE THE STRAIN WAS CREATED."
Hmmm....has there been a misunderstanding from the start?
You said it... The STRAIN was developed here in America, from the imported Irish dogs.

"And do you not think that i an Irishman would like the credit to go to Ireland for these game to the back bone little red,red nosed dogs , but i just dont belive they did come from here . i strongly belive they are an American creation albeit from irish stock ! "
You said it again... The OFRN STRAIN is an American creation from Irish stock!
They were crossed with other Pit Dogs to form the strain.
Later, the red nosed dogs were family bred, best to best, to preserve the gameness and [] characteristics of the Irish dogs.
They were bred for this, not for the color. The color, as I stated, is just the package they come in.

 

Also all this talk of made up storys to peddle pups is re.fucking tarted... no one was peddleing pups back then later in history yes. I dont think williams corvino mccoy lightner wallace and the were in it to peddle pups not to mention the red red nosed dogs were looked down appon by many dogmen of old

 

Btw ggd, if a dog is brindle in any other color than red, it is not an OFRN dog, though it may have it in its ped.
This will only occur (another color, even with red nose) when an OFRN is crossed to black nose dog.
For when two OFRN dogs are bred, the pups will always be red/rednose. It's from the genes...
And yes, I have seen non red coated dogs with a red nose, both brindle and not brindle.

 

This discussion is just going in circles. In the face of hard printed and photo evidence, the same ones that were in denial are still in denial. As Eagle stated "believe what you want to believe" I guess.

Some of my stated opinion in this thread was directly based on statements made by Lou Colby concerning red nose dogs. For over 100 years, two (2) master breeders ... father and son ... John P. and Lou ... helped forge this breed and registries as well as providing dogs in virtually every pedigree, strain and line of note. Say what you will about Colby dogs ... but there is NO DOUBT that those two men knew a little about APBTs and had more than a passing fancy in their endeavors.

Some will say that Lou Colby's statements are suspect/biased because he had no desire to breed or promote red nosed dogs. The same can be said of statements of ANY dogman who stewards a strain or bloodline, including so called OFRN. That's why facts with proof are crucial.

The only way to find the truth is by questions, research and discussion ... hopefully backed by fact. I hear a lot of opinions in this thread concerning OFRN but what's lacking is hard evidence to support accusations and assertions on the part of those who buy into the myth, legend and lore of OFRN. Even those with so called proof ... refuse to post pictures and factual information. We are to believe them because they said so doesn't cut it when faced with overwhelming documented proof contrary to their opinion.

Long Live Our Dogs y'all !!! :cool:

 

well said Joe Bingo ! good man .

 

Joe , maybe look at it a different way

Why did Lightner, Corvino, Hemphill, McCoy, and the likes continue to breed this strain if they did not believe in the merit of what they had been told about the OFR dogs ?
The red nose seems to have been agreed by all , that it was merely a by product of line breeding OFR dogs in the USA which then became known as OFRN

redgoodbye makes a good point about these men breeding pit dogs, not dogs for looks to be peddled

 

Thanks, lesson learned. LOL

 

I've been reading this board and think it's a shame when someone whose been involved with dogs for so long takes the time to share information and gets ridiculed for it. It brings our dog community down as a whole and destroys the very purpose of there being a forum. There's people here who still take the time to listen and understand before speaking. We all may have a difference of opinion but arguing takes away from the subject we all love, the apbt. Many great dog people refuse to participate in dog forums for the said reasons, don't drive away the few that stay with comments that borderline on childish.

 

Glad to see you are all so interested in this as much as me. Been real busy last week and have to get on here and it takes me about an hour to read new stuff. This thread is getting a lot of info tossed into it.

I love me some ol family and for sure- o yeah - lots of this blood was foundational to the Xpert stuff, and those dogs had fire for quite some time.
Black jack was another good one that was used in the foundery of am staff UKC stuff.
The knowledge I have on these old dogs and names I hear floating around my head, are often from the things I have been told by others, or read from credible sources.
This was a pretty bust time for dog folk, and there was a lot going on. People leaving this club to go to that one.
A lot of this history is of the same dogs from that time, foundation to ALL the dogs we have today.
The dogs from the ol families were the best around. Why do all of our dogs go back to them if this was not true.
We can learn from the history, but we can not change it.

 

He wasn't the only one.....but, aaa someone ;-) botched that one....

 

Okay I am tried of this crap.I got a question, how many of you Pepsi generation dogmen owned these dogs before 1980?How many of you been to the core of the sport?Now I'm sure Lou produced some good dogs now and then but he didn't match dogs or know what other strains were like, that is a fact.He only knew what his father told him. Like APBT came from English Bulldog and White English Terrier, which it didn't.As it has been wrote, I.K. has pictures of imported dogs from Ireland that red/red nose.Read single registration pedigrees of dogs back into the 1800's.Can show both, now for those who doubt, seek the truth which has been wrote about for over 150 years!This information comes from people who had dogs longer then anyone, Bill Lightner who had red/red nose decades before John Colby owned his first dog!I.K. has talked to Earl Tudor, Joe Corvino, Bob Hemphill, Bob Wallace, Bob O'Neil, I.D. Cole, etc.People who been active in this breed for much longer then Colby or anyone else.I got to wonder, who are you all? What in the world are any of your achievements or accomplishments for you questions some one was has OFRN longer then most of you been alive!IMO if you doubt what has been wrote about the quality, I'm here to prove you wrong. Enough said.

 

No, I am right.Having dogs but not breeding them doesn't qualify.Dan bred them.I know where every pup or dog has ever went.......

 

BTW John's dogs at Xpert came from Storklind Kennel dogs of Bodzainowsk,i of the Charlie Doyle Corvino bloodlines.

 

Apparently you can't tell a red nose dog in a black white picture because most of those dogs were.Most we go through the black & white picture thing again?I can post a picture of a very famous red/red nose dog and you couldn't tell me the color or the name of the dog.Now don't take posts of context again:

 

This is all very amazing.Taking pedigrees off a service like Online Pedigree and other johnnie come lately services like Carl's. None has been known to be accurate. 90% of I.K. pedigrees are inaccurate on those services.Oh BTW I.K. has the picture of Corvino's Braddock before one of his "14" matches and he did win that many.Floyd's interview talked about all Boze's wins which more then Pincher.Oh ya, about Ch. Billy Sunday. I.K. has the original picture of him which Harry Clark's hand writing of who he won over, year, time.Oh btw he has about a dozen pictures of Bruce's Jerry and the only known picture of Cunningham's Boxer (the box dog) his son, Shorty & Gimp's litter mate brother.

 

C2K in defense of my boy jr_bulldawg would have bred them dogs if he was in a position to. I would at least ended up with 1 or 2 of the pups. Sometimes I wish there was a time machine to go back in time with the knowledge & resources that I have now I would know which dogs to get from IK & DG. Shoot if I wish that i would have kept some of the pups from the breeding that jr & i did with a straight red devil bitch i had to his red inferno male. Pure blood is hard to come by today concerning OFRN.

 

This dog right here fly of panama looks like a red nose brindle the dam to corvinos gimp. I don't understand Joe Bingo and Crossbones are you guys arguing that there were no red nose staff's ??? Because there were quite a few showing up in the ruffian / white rocks dogs that didn't just happen by mistake.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1802] :: FLY OF PANAMA

 

Sorry I meant Cromboss and Joe Bingo lol