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Old Family Red

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Del Castillo PR, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    The red nose dogs you see today in Ireland off the SBT is from when Fred Miller open UKC back up and let American Bull Dogs, AST, SBT registered as APBT.
    Talk to Icepick she loves to point out dogs she personally knows about in pedigrees of both APBT and SBT.
    Icepick? She had the first ADBA conformation champion.
    Not excluding her very famous Pit Dogs.

    I couldn't care less what is now in Ireland.
    There might not be any APBT from the strain of Old Family Red Nose.
    I have known all my life there hasn't been any Old Family Reds there or here.
    My family immigrated back in the early 1700's to the U.S. from England, has their Coat of Arms.
    Our Klan was from the Normandy, the Normans who conquered England from the Saxons and Anglos.
    People from Normandy was from the Norsemen aka Vikings.

    All I can do is to take you over to UKC and show the pedigrees of single registered dogs imported from Ireland.
    All I can do is show you of the pictures of the people and the dogs they imported.
    No, I will not go to the bother of posting all this information on to the Internet or to this forum.

    It appears I have the proof and you don't, but want it.
    To bad, nothing in life is for free and it surly wasn't for me...
     
  2. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    You mean Dan Gibson because it didn't come from Dan Norrod.
    Dan & Dan only talked about "Boston Roundheads".
    Why Dan Gibson had more success then most using this bloodline today is because he was the only one who was allowed to get stock off both brothers.
    Cassius Clay and Red Devil, no else had it.
    Dan Gibson was a natural and very gifted man considering how limited his life was.
     
  3. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Iron Mike Norman means man that cam from the north!
    Just as a side note!
     
  4. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    These remarks:

     
  5. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Any name that starts with the prefix of NOR is from people of Norway and Scandinavia.
     
  6. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Sure but it has manifested as a name in England!
     
  7. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    I knew Jacob long before he got Geronimo and Dixie. Long before Ron came along.
    I remember when Clarence Yates got Mitzie as a pup in 1968. He was so proud of her he put something about her in 1968 Bloodlines Journal about her.
    This was the same year Irish Jerry wrote to the Bloodlines Journal.
    Jake never had "PURE" OFRN".

    OFRN is a strain with in the APBT breed. The breed it self was made up by many crosses of fighting dogs from Europe.

    Now when people state "pure" I have to ask them what they mean by pure.
    Not all the dogs in the pedigree can trace back to Irish imported dogs.

    So what do I considered the heaviest bred OFRN dogs?
    I would have to say a dog who has nothing but red nose dogs in its' pedigree for over 7 generations.
    All the litter mates to those dogs were red nose as well.
    Looks isn't all of it, but from stock who is known to bred down from Irish imported dogs.
    Who today do I know have dogs bred like that?
    I do.......and no they are not for sale!

    Since there are Colby fans on this forum, let make from reference of Joseph.
    I looked and couldn't find a link or cross post about OFRN and why they were so sought after.
    In the Colby book, the Fox's book, Meek's book, Stratton's books and many others,
    OFRN strain took after the foundation breed of the Old Family Reds.

    As I already wrote, each Klan in Ireland kept the dogs to them selves and family bred them by inbreeding and tight line breeding.
    As the books I named, often they wrote to restore gameness you have to breed son to mother, brother to sister and daughter to father.-Joseph Colby.
    Inbreeding on alike traits.
    Back in those days they didn't know they were compounding on alike genes which the gameness trait was dominate in those dogs.

    The Irish dogs in Ireland was culled for congenial faults and curs.
    Of all the imported stock to make up the APBT, this one lone breed of dog had the ability to do so.
    Others did but not very many times. To this day there are many bloodlines which still don't have the ability to be heavily inbred at all, besides for generations.
    Many back in the late 1800's and early 1900's people started to find this trait, which originated in Ireland could be found in the decedents of the dogs import from there.
    Years later these dogs of the APBT were referred to as Old Family Red NOSE.

    All modern combat dogs have OFRN in their pedigree.
    Almost every top quality dog you will find Dibo or from the family of dogs which created him in their pedigree.
    Dibo was a product of Niece to Great Uncle breeding, direct line breeding.
    Bambi's mother, her mother was a litter mate to Corvino's aka Hubbard's Bounce.
    Now if you believe the pedigree of Zebo, this also true. Either way the litter still produced top quality dogs.

    Eli and Red Devil, who born 6 years apart, were some of the best Pit Dogs for generations.
    Red Devil was popular in Your Friend and Mine and Sporting Dog Journal for the first 10 years and some later.
    Both way back traces to the same family of dogs.
    Some of the best dogs in history was Red Devil/Eli crosses.
    In modern times the best known reported performance dog was from this cross and her ancestors, Db. Gr. Ch. Tornado.

    I will agree in the last few decades the strain of OFRN has been on a decline.
    There is getting more and more variances with in the strain.
    This is why the private register OFRNR was created was to try and preserve their heritage and the quality they were once known for.
     
  8. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    I meant to write Dibo (1952) not Eli.
    "Eli and Red Devil (1958), who born 6 years apart,"
     
  9. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    No that is not true, Google the name in a power search and you will see it is still in Norway.
    A lot are now in Germany as well.
     
  10. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Oh, I think I know why there is a misunderstanding, Normans was people from Normandy, not solely a family but a group of people Norwood, Norris, Norrod, etc. were all referenced as Normans- people from Normandy.
     
  11. you are sooo wrong there mike !:rolleyes:

    lol i think your losing the plot there norseman wtf has this got to do with dogs !

    thats right i would like to see those pictures of them dogs because its someting i am intrested in as a bulldog fancier but since you dont want to share that information i wont be losing any sleep over it .
    maybe if people back in the day did truthfully share their knowledge about this sort of stuff instead of keeping it secret then maybe all the blanks in the history and origin of our breed wouldnt have to be filled with mythical fairytales such as that of the origins of the "old family reds"
     
  12. 1916

    1916 Big Dog

    I think you misunderstand what iron mike was saying.
    Old family dogs came from Ireland while ofrn's are an American creation.
     
  13. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Damn -just wont take a cut in gum for the world... U been todt too much if you still have not understanded what was drawn out for you.
     
  14. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Hey Gaelic, - At not disprespect being cast towards anyone, that is your name, being an old tongue, spoken by few nomadic tribes in the land today, in fact, if you read this language, there is a wealth of knowledge to be found.
    Mine name is is Tyler McCoy. I am of 90% pure Irish decent. The other 10% being English - Back to the round table and a dieng name, and my Irish decents go back the Family Makoy, that still resides in your land. If you get high enough in the land, you may see sroun and past the dogs you see today. You got to go up up up -mot back in line, but "up in country.
    To say there are no dogs, red or not in the land, is like saying there are none in America. Really - if you have looked, and have the correct folks in contact, you would not even be here disputing these, already covered 100 times better, holes you are seeing.


    Can I ask your name in no disrespect - ? This may help us to understand youir take.
     
  15. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Came from north, moving south...just a kicker----I.M. --take me with you when ya go...cant deal with "undogfolk"..lol...cant get through-----see whay you been telling me for couple years now.
    This is something I looked past......dang and look out..
    gotta be why you have such lillte patience these days! ha

    talk to ya soon!
     
  16. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    - when you are ready to seek farming(paid or not) for the future generationf - that will be honored in your name, I am ready to follow your path, and honor what you put forth, just tell me and it will be done so as you wish.

    Legacies are passed on like blood through a vein, as you once said to me. Money holds no value.


     
  17. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    I.M - :) Would you not say that the OFR dogs were not a foundation to the APBT in general, if not making up more than 80% of the dogs used as foundation in creating the dogs, here today?
     
  18. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    dont forget that darn centepede
     
  19. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    yes the Stafford were are and always will be as a matter of inheritance true to type .

    Secondly, its you like so many who confuses …I was born and bred where these dogs have been treasured longer than your country was a twinkle in a BRITS eye!! you statements as to the colouration of the original BULL DOG are inaccurate

    Thirdly , The white you refer in the BULL TERRIER, has a different ancestry & expression than that of the Stafford, the confusion is all yours.

    As for you knowing what Dudley refers too that isn’t the same as knowing where it is, & why the strong association.

    Your final point is irrelevant to my reasons for posting, ….however thank you for the reply
    …and finally, my ancestors are TRUE NORSE VIKING ancestry, and just like the dogs it will show in distinct inherited traits:animal_plutoe:
     

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