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The Oklahoma Kid Earl Tudor Story

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by Robertosilva, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Look....I got no problem talking history.but fact is mate.(and if you think I'm a arse licker coz I called you mate or pal your very wrong.it's called being polite mate!.as my old gran said it takes nothing for manners.)yeah but fact is mate!.I no more then you.so don't call me a joke.....that's all in saying.

    If you wanna keep it civil.cool.but you are fucking no one to call me a joke mate!
    I'll admit.I'm no one my self.just so we're clear lol.

    So well keep back on track
    Ok.@ Bamaman.fair enough.I get what your saying.but I'm not saying nothing's so black and white.I explain further up that I think the EBT blood from 1900 was bread closely to hinks madman..witch was not far proven stock.(and the Spike blood you mentiond was not far from proven stock!)...maybe Komosinkisy dogs had something to do with these Madman dogs?...but his early dogs pedigrees seem to be pure Colby.I no any one can put what they want on a ped...and I was just saying dogs can through different types of heads really.
    But anyway let's say your right.and he did use this cross.or Tudor use the imported cross..well it's a long time ago.would it make any difference now?.and as Lrs just said.no one mentioned if these experiments ever failed...when chances are they most probably did...

    I'm just saying.it's a good discussion really.


    I still don't deserve to be called a joke tho.:)):)):))
     
  2. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    Calling someone out to participate in illegal practices on the WWW makes no sense at all.
    It is all in the genes and the one behind the bulldog.
    A sound Bull Terrier crossed with a sound Pit Bull Terrier can produce dogs who can outclass purebreds.
    Once in a while.
    Bull terriers in KominskiĀ“s time were different then the today variants. I can understand why he gave it (maybe) a try.
    Succesfull crosses with UK Staffordshires and American Staffordshires, it all happened in the past.
    Once in a while.
    If it all those dogs their blood stood the test of time is often another story.
    Happy Easter Folks.
     
    david63, Lrs, corvettedex and 2 others like this.
  3. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Top Dog

    I am sure a lot of bull terriers have hard mouths and in Australia they seem to work great on boars but I cant see a hard biting bull terrier biting any harder than a hard mouthed bull dog of equal size. But what ever Walter Komosinski did worked.
     
  4. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Top Dog

    4251.jpg
    Above is Walter Komosinski's Mutt which was sold to Ozzie Stevens. Not try to start a pissing match with anyone on here but If can't see heavy Bull Terrier blood in this dog from his head to his feet your in need of a eye exam. The way I heard it was Komosinski's neighbor bred and showed English Bull Terriers, one of the neighbors stud dogs did a accidental tie with one of Komosinski's bitches and that was that Komosinski liked what was produced. Walter Komosinski was a hard man and a hard man to beat. Top notch pit bulldogs for sure. Don't ask me why or how it made his dogs great it just did.
     
    Lrs, Fl0w and bamaman like this.
  5. Box Bulldog

    Box Bulldog Top Dog

    I was thinking a little about this topic of Apbt X Ebt or Sbt. Doesn't involve game dogs but similar comparison just the same I think anyhow. A good friend of mine has a American Bulldog X Gun dog (lab type) cross of some type. It looks like a American Staff with a thicker coat and thicker tail. The dog is gritty and tough as a American bulldog (there a pretty serious dog if you have not been around one) but smaller it's about 55lbs in great condition. It can bite and hold like a American bulldog, great guard dog not noisy but lets you now he ain't screwing around when he needs to its gonna be a great catch dog and weight pull dog (still young) so it inherited all the traits a guy would want in a American bulldog. And from the gun dog side it will retrieve like crazy! (cant wait to go out for ducks in the fall with him) his sense of smell is as good as any gun dog and he runs like the wind with great movement. He also has great endurance. So by doing this cross my friend has a dog that can do any task of a American bulldog and moves better and has a great gun dog as well that is very durable. So to sum it up he didn't lose anything a guy would want in both breeds. Also on the plus for us up hear on the North pole his coat is good for our winters (from the gun dog) and he doesn't slobber like a American bulldog. Any outdoorsman looking for a good all around dog this cross may be something to look into. Another thing that crossed my mind is when you read about bull terriers from 100 years ago or so where they actually bull terriers? I don't believe the term APBT was really around then or used much. Why I say this is the dog in my avatar was my Great Grandfathers game dog (a very good one at that). He called it a Bull terrier always. As a kid growing I seen this picture of him and his dog many times and was told it was a bull terrier by my Grandpa and my Dad cause that what he told them. That picture was taken right before he left to fight in France in the great war so around 1916 I would say. Now that I am a little older and wiser looking and admiring the photo of the dog he looks like APBT to me lots of stop in the head for one reason. So what I am trying to say is back in the day a lot of APBT dogs may have been called Bull terriers because that's the common term that was used for them then. I have also heard the term American Bull terriers used.
     
    F.W.K., Fl0w and Soze the killer like this.
  6. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    That's interesting stuff Box Bulldog and it makes sense.. I was a big fan of NBK/Dude's (rip) dogs, always thought the Komonsinski coming blood through Dude's Monster, Orbit and Piney resembled EBT..
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=145568
    I got little knowledge on Earl Tudor or bulldog history in general so nothing of any value to offer on that, just saying your point about Komonsinski backs up what I believed about the Monster and Orbit influence in NBK dogs since they must be the ugliest dogs on the planet :)) Wish I'd bought one though! I remember during the 80's a top class dogman in England was known for crossing APBT x EBT.. Believe he was bred a nice one out of the north east called called CH.Pirate.
     
  7. I no.@FWK.....not a wise thing to do I must admit..but to just call me a joke when I've only give my opinion is typical www..it's just a opinion..I don't call no one a joke coz they got one.
    Happy Easter.

    What you say@ Box Bulldog makes sense.and Mutt sure dose have a long head.he's pure Colby on his ped..and @ OG,that ped you posted man that dogs got a long head.longer head,pure white and they gonna look like a EBT from 1900.especially with pointed ears....
    There is some evidence that EBT blood enters the gene pool of the APBTs around 1900 or earlier.as I just said further up.Frisco Sport being a example of this.Frisco Sport is mention in Armitege book..as you BB,and FWK say.the EBT in them times was a totally different animal from today..and as I just said.they were not far removed from there pit fighting ancestors like Madman and such.they would of all been class the same then.that is as pit bulls,or bull Terriers from UK and Ireland ,different parts of Europe..until they became different types.
    No one can deny they are a hell of a lot different now.whether they came from the same ancestor or not.

    Great read BB, on the cross you use for hunting.and it seems like a ideal dog for the job.

    All the best folks happy Easter
    YIS
     
    david63 and Box Bulldog like this.
  8. stickler

    stickler Banned

    You know the Armitage book, so read the first pages again. I remember there something to read about 'different' crosses being made.
    Pit x BT crosses are very special dogs. It might be the head that makes them so special. The head-shape, the jaws, or just the skull in general ... nice.
    Remember Ch Psycho ?
     
    mccoypitbulls and Box Bulldog like this.
  9. stickler

    stickler Banned

    And just because you mentioned Colby ... do you know what kind of crosses this welsh man did in his lifetime ?
    What do you think ?
    Purebred dogs ?
    Tightest gene pool today ?
    The Mutt dog is pure Colby as you mentioned ? What does this say to you ?
     
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  10. Henry's Richmond who's way,way,back in that ped @OG...most definitely has that look about him.it says his dad was Birmingham Jack.so I'm presuming he was imported from there....Birmingham was a strong hold for them Hinks dogs around that time or a little before...
     
  11. Don't it say he used a boston cross pit dog for his first fight.?
    And why are they "very special" ?......do you mean years ago?or now?.......

    And yes I'm aware what crosses Colby made.he crossed proven English blood with proven Irish blood.it says in his book he was fond of Irish blood the most.but he used a lot of Cockny Charles Pilot blood to.and since Pilot was bread in the Staffordshire some were.it shows he crossed English and Irish blood together..it may also indicate in his book that he lent more to the Irish blood side of things.as he bought a Irish import called Galti to breed into his line,around 1910,maybe a little later.(the dates seem a bit unclear)....
     
  12. Fl0w

    Fl0w Pup

    Coooomee ooooon baby girl, are ya gonna cry now?

    Honestly the victim role doesn't suit you well...
    I call you a joke because I think you're one, it's just my humble opinion since more than a year, no offence :)

    To finish I'm gonna quote a man who knows what he's talking about

    Now keep posting, you'll become an internet match dog soon;)

    Actually I thought that maybe the average BT could have a better mouth than the average bulldog or that they could maybe pass this trait with more constitency .
    I think that in one of the Zwettler's book the author say something about their hard bitting power and say that even today you can find many individuals with a really hard mouth even in the show stock.


    That would make a lot of sense! maybe he just liked the offspring of that accidental mating, it could have been some really good pups with the hybrid vigor from that cross, genetic is always full of surprise.
    Thanks for sharing this little history, never heard about.
     
  13. Whatever man.
     
  14. And yes Psycho.said to be about a eighth?EBT...indeed the dog he lost to "Stormer"was half?or a quarter?EBT...
    People probably made them crosses years ago coz that's all they had round them.and both breeds that is Staffs and EBTs were used more as badger drawing dogs..a tough task by any standard..need a strong well built dog to hold on under any punishment what a 40 lbs boar could do at the end fighting for his life,while man try taling it..not a easy task.and a strong dog would obviously be very valuble....at the same time tho it's a different presses to winning in the pits.tho I'll bet a lot of dogs done well for sure!.no denying that.....
    But over all miles behind the APBT.
     
    david63 likes this.
  15. That's a interesting ped that.go back further and I'm not gonna lie you can see the influence were speaking of here...Henry's Richmond(8x win)could easily pass for a EBT of the times..I'll take it he would of been bread a lot,and many dogs to this day can still trace some lines back to him.as your pedigree shows..a lot of dogs throw there "type" into a line..them black dogs would seem to prove this.anyways maybe Richmond thru his "type"into many lines and that's were them heads come from?.maybe Richmond was in fact a EBT of the times?(I'll bet a Hinks one)...or maybe Hinks could get access to pure pit stock,that what had these long heads and he started his own line from them?.dogs with that head existed before he showed his Bull Terriers at the Crystal Palace show witch was in 1859..or around that time..

    Anyways I fond that ped fascinating.lol
     
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  16. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog

  17. @ Box Bulldog....that dog on your avetar looks like the type were talking about to.
     
  18. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog

  19. @ Box Bulldog...were they EBTs??...or just another strain of pit dogs what looked this way...they would of been able to be shown on the show bench in them times as EBTs aswell..
     
  20. Southbanker

    Southbanker Big Dog

    Bloody hell,calm down lad.
     

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