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Inhibited auto immune deficiency?

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by kensloft, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    Zeus got some sores on his paws and licked at them. After a while it seems that whatever was on his feet began to appear throughout his torso. These bumps that appeared had the same look as the ones on his feet but they did not break as the pustules that had formed on his feet usually would. Like a big pimple with no puss.
    The bumps were cutaneous as well as muscular and skeletal. I thought it was cancer but that was ruled out by the vet. He was given medication and seemed to have gotten better but now he has not had a bowel movement for five days. The vet says that it could be a possible lack of movement brought on in the intestinal system through the nervous system. Zeus has not even attempted to strike the defecatioin pose. All he does is urinate copious amounts of urine because he is drinking lots of water.
    He is spending most of his time lying around. Occassionally, he will get up to drink or change positions. I get him to move by making him climb to his feet which is a real effort on his part. He seems to be getting better at climbing to his feet. From the pit bull sprawl to getting his legs steady under him.
    I don't think that this is an unknown disease that he is suffering from and I hope that there is someone that can bring me up to par on whether he is being properly cared for with these symptoms. He is getting Cephleron. Sucralflate. Pereduisone(?assistant's scrawl)
    Any information welcome.
     
  2. Suki

    Suki Guest

    i'm "guessing" that 3rd drug is Prednisone, typically an anti-inflammatory, and/or itchy skin, and if so, is probably the cause for all his thirst=is a side effect. also, i t can sometimes cause muscle weakness, which may be the reason why he is having a hard time moving about. (adverse reaction)

    i would call your vet back and ask what some of the side effects are from the other drugs, and i will run this thread by our vets when i go in on tuesday. if you believe he is becoming constipated, you can add pumpkin to his food to help promote a bowel movement. we board anywheres up to 100 dogs at our kennel, and this "remedy" does the trick more times then not with dogs who do not have a BM for 2 days or more.
    the sucralfate is probably being prescribed to lessen his pepsin activity and protect against stomach ulcerations, due on behalf to the ceph, also prescribed, which MAY/could be irrating to his stomach. one is countering the other, so to speak i.e., being used so stomach upset won't occur. not at work now, so i'm "guessing" why all three...
    can you post any pics of the sores, for the docs to see? may be more helpful.
    i'd get on the phone tho, and ask what can be done to help his apparent muscle weakness and what can be used to help promote a BM.
    again, i'll run this by my docs(co-workers on tuesday). til then, best of luck and hope he feels better soon.
    BTW, what did your vet term his "condition" as? (j/c)
     
  3. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    Talked to the vet and he said that I should give him Pepto Bismol or Lactulose. Soaked his food in the lactulose and fed him. Gave him milk and a fibre laxative. Knowing that there is some muscle weakness makes me feel a little better but I am wary because of the fact that he is not defecating. Thanks tons for your help.
    Can't post pics of sores because I have lost my adapter for the computer and can't replace it for a few weeks.
    The sores look like pimples and in some areas they cluster into harder agglomerations suggesting that six, eight, twelve or fifteen coalesce into this larger, harder aspect of the disease.
    Hope this added information helps some?
     
  4. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    The sores are aproximately a half inch to an inch and a half in circumference. They can be up to half an inch in height. They don't seem to have the head that is usually attributed to a pimple but looking at the fur gives that illusion. The parts that coalesce are about two inches by three inches.
    It seems that the focus of the disease is the neck and spreading to the legs. The feel of those growing deeper in the skin is as if they are some form of cyst. They are the same size as above. The area, in some places on the legs, will look like an orange skin. Because of the tautness that the pustules make on the skin in the legs some of these sores begin to seep blood and eventually crack open exuding blood and lymph(?).
    On the legs the sores can appear anywhere and everywhere on the lower part moving up to the top. The orange peel description is apt for this region of the lower legs to the knee. The pimples eventually become different sizes.
     
  5. chloesredboy

    chloesredboy CH Dog

    The symptoms you are describing are making me think of a rare adrenal disease that we kind of read about in school ,but didnt really study too much due to its rarity,i cant even remember the name right now,but let me see if I can dig up my old school books and find anythin about it.In the meantime maybe some of other techs might know what I'm reffering to.Its the sores on the paws brings this to mind.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2007
  6. JRSPITS

    JRSPITS Top Dog

    These symptoms sound like a bacterial skin infection my dog had. He was covered head to toe, every time I touched him they would pop and he would be covered in blood.
     
  7. Suki

    Suki Guest

    i'm gunna print this off now, and bring it on up with me to work right now. depending on the case load today, i'll see if one of the docs can check it out and will get back to you, n/p.


    and lactulose usually works great, so hopefully that is helping with the BM's.(we also use that a lot, as well.)
    also, he is possibly acting weak/feeling crappy, as well, due to not 'going'. (think how you feel after not having a BM for several days=uncomfortable, generally lousy, etc.)

    anyhow, will get back to you.
     
  8. Suki

    Suki Guest

    ok, according to one of the docs i asked, based on the scripts, it does sound as tho your dog is being treated for, as you stated an immune deficiency of some sort. yes, the prednisone will cause exsessive thirst and therefore the urination output will obviously be more, and as i suspected, the sucralfate has been prescribed to help deal with the stomach acids, which the cephleron and pred may cause to incease. This particular doctor, Dr. Sweet, was wondering what the dosage of the prednisone was. I wasn't sure, as none was mentioned. Also, if you had brought your dog in to our clinic, she said she would have run full blood work and a series of chest and abdominal xrays. She was wondering if these were done and what the results yielded. She (Sarah) "suspected" based on what has been written, (your original post), along with having no pics to go by, that perhaps it could/may possibly be a bacterial infection in the dog's hair folicles~was just a guess tho.

    some side effects of prednisone include, but are not limited to: (hence, why she is curious as to that particular dosage).

    Systemic side effects to corticosteroids are generally dependent on dose and duration of treatment. Short-term use of prednisone is unlikely to cause adverse effects. Adverse effects are more common in animals on immunosuppressive doses.

    Side effects seen in dogs include polyuria, polydipsia, polyphagia, poor haircoat, GI disturbance, diarrhea, vomiting, weight gain, GI ulceration, pancreatitis, lipidemia, elevated liver enzymes, diabetes mellitus, muscle wasting, and possible behavioral changes.

    Polyuria, polydipsia, polyphagia may be seen in dogs even on short-term therapy. this is: the "classic triad" of diabetes is: polyuria, polydipsia, and polyphagia. Increased levels of glucose in the blood leads to hyperosmolarity and depletion of intracellular water. This triggers thirst centers in the brain leading to thirst (polydipsia). Insulin deficiency leads to catabolism of proteins and fat leading to a negative energy balance and increased appetite (polyphagia). Finally, the increased blood glucose spills over into the kidney as well as promoting an osmotic diuresis leading to polyuria.

    She also suggested that whatever your concerns/questions are, even that 3rd medicine, which i'm (as mentioned) guessing it is always feel free to be point blank and tell your vet that you do not fully understand, need more answers or even have more questions. Dr, Sweet said sometimes, they, as docs, use terminology that the "average Joe" may not understand, and since the owner may not question a script, a diagnosis or a treatment, they, as doctors think the owner understands, and it's a "done deal", when in reality, sometimes the owner leaves feeling even more confused. So, she recommended that you question anything and everything you don't fully understand, write it all down, if need be, and walk away feeling more assured and less doubtful. Not, full of questions.
    anyhow, that was the base of our conversation. i hope this will at least help a little.
    also, feel free to throw any questions my way, as we will be on tomorrw night together as well, and at least she has an "idea" about this case. happy to help, and passes the time!;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2007
  9. simms

    simms CH Dog

    Ive been following this thread...I never like to hear that that auto immune is the diagnoses on a pet. IMO this is a nice way of saying that we dont know what's wrong with your pet .

    Most of my experience with auto immune is with cats or toy breeds. From what you describe it does sound like a nasty type of staph,viral skin infection. I'm not familuar with that named antibiotic. Is it part of the cephalexin family? Is it comparable to cipro or zenequin? You may need a stronger antibiotic to combat and long term therapy.

    Another thing to keep in mind is, pred can be counter productive. An antibiotic may have to work alot harder when combined together. What's your dose and has your DVM started taperring the dose?
     
  10. Suki

    Suki Guest

    simms, dr sweet said the same thing.....
     
  11. I had a dog get auto imuune and her feet would sweel up and she would bite at them..any shots you gave her she would have an allergic reaction to them and this didnt come on till about 4 months of age... I had her put down but this is what she had they sent a biopsy out and thats the diagnosis the lab sent back... good luck to you though...
     
  12. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    sorry for the delay in getting back.
    He is getting about 75 m of the prednisone daily. Fifty in the AM. Twenty five in the PM.
    Cephalexin 78 mg in the AM. 78 in the PM.
    Sucralfate- One half tablet AM and PM. No dosage indicated on pill container.
    What would be the Achille's heel on a human has, on Zeus, seemed to have swollen and filled in making it hard for him to move and walk over the past day. His front legs also seem to be swelling. I force him (pick him up) up to walk and urinate because he needs some help to do so.
    I took him to the vet yesterday and was given some more anti-biotics and told to continue for 4 or 5 days. The bumps are seeming to be reacting from this and he is healing, it seems, at that level. They are diminishing in size but at a slow rate. There is suggestion that a transfusion will be in order/ is in order but the financial means are not available (3-400 dollars) until this Thursday... job transition pay cheques. I am hoping that this will help but I have to wait until I have the cash in hand. No billing for the services. He is becoming more lethargic.
    He eats and drinks. I am feeding him beef. He prefers it to pork. He swallows it, essentially. Have to feed him lying on his side today. Doesn't want to get up (or can't?). He does struggle to get up for the water when it is placed near him. He seems more alert and focused. He is responsive to himself as he does move his position regularly. A struggle but he does move.
     
  13. simms

    simms CH Dog

    Are you seeing a specialist or has your primary tried to reffer you to a specialist?
     
  14. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    Today Zeus seems to be a little better. He has managed to get up to go to the bathroom. Both evacuation methods are working. He is eating. He is drinking. He is still lethargic but he seems to be overcoming this state. He has learned that if he makes certain motions he knows that it will get my attention and I will cater to his needs. If he had a yen for water he would smack with his tongue presumably showing dry mouth. Food is usually a whimper or noise. Constant shifting and attempts to get up means he could use a little help. To defecate he put it together to walk to the designated paper on the floor.
    The lethargism comes, it seems, in waves. The excercise of getting himself up and walking to do something leads to an exhaustion and looking for the nearest place to lie down. It is usually somewhere along the path to his usual sleeping place.
    Unable to do the three point pee has him stretching to make room for the urination. It's not a squat but he lowers the body height. I place a stainless steel bowl under the stream and save a scad of cleanup time. I can see the sores, although more numerous, their size is diminishing. When I say more numerous it is because, it seems, that they would have evolved but because they were stopped they all came out rather than the slower, more menacing continual eruption that was happening. Along the spine is where it seems to have been spreading from or at least was an unseen predominance until the antibiotics. Thanks Suki. I'll be going to the vet this week so I will keep you posted.
     
  15. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    Never made the vet Sept. 13, 2007 Zeus worsens and succumbs to ... . Having rushed home ... he passed away at 5:00 p.m. westcoast time. My arms held him and we gazed into each other's eyes and knew the moment had come. He knowng and I not wanting to believe that he would not wake with the next day.
    Zeus is being cremated and l'll spread his ashes in the places he loved. We never got to the vet.
    This morning at work I thought about him and had this image of him with mom and dad playing as they had done when he was a puppy in some heavenly field. An idyllic vision.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Suki

    Suki Guest

    :( i am SO SO very sorry to be reading this.

    I wish i could have been more help... i'm only glad that his pain and suffering is over now.

    ...he waits for you on the bridge...

    {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

    sorry, kensloft [​IMG].....
     
  17. kensloft

    kensloft Big Dog

    Zeus has left me but there's no great black hole of
    sadness because he has left me wth a legacy of love and
    companionship that has 11 years of love, adventure and
    tribulations in my mind and heart. A bond of mutual
    respect and love for each other. Protectng each other from the world around us. He was so much a part of my lfe that his life became my life. His needs became my needs. My needs were met by his needs being met.

    Today the constancy of his needs is not there. He is not
    here to be cared for by the one that has dominion over his life. In his remarkable, inimitable way he, as always soothed and calmed my grief and pain by looking upon me and into my eyes to let me know he loved me and needed to see me before he died because he knew that I needed to tell him I loved him and needed him in my life. He died in my arms. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. He gave him to me and now He called him away. It, sadly, is not my call.

    The warmth, love and exhiliration of being in his life
    brings joy into my heart as the years steeped in memories that are bountiful of his happy face smiling his
    appreciation of how wonderful the world was and could be as long as we watched for each other's safety and well-
    being.

    I got to show and teach thousands of people just how
    beautiful and intelligent these loving animals are. He
    made multitudes of friends of two legs or four legs.
    Canine or other. He loved being happy with friends either
    made or being made. He loved being a dog and I loved
    seeing a dog as well as all the people he met loved him
    because he was a dog. Dogs loved him because he was a dog with the dog temperament of "OK! Let's have fun and run around and play." He didn't smash into smaller animals and send them hurtling through the air or attack other dogs of the same or larger size. He knew they wanted to play so that was the name of the game. He was often referred to as being gentle with other canines whose owners were won over by his inherent beauty and compassionate empathy that allowed their pets to be dogs without the fear and trepidation of being injured. It is a trait of the Staffordshire that I loved.

    He's in God's Hands now and the day will come when we'll meet again. In the meantime I'll cherish the memories and joys that his life brought to me. I'll cherish the friendships that continue because of his happy, loving disposition that brought them there for us to enjoy. I will celebrate his life on this plane and celebrate that he has gone to a better place. God Bless you Zeus. I love you.
     
  18. LuvinBullies

    LuvinBullies CH Dog

    I am so very sorry to be reading this. It's so hard to lose such a good and loyal friend. :( Gone, but not forgotten.
     
  19. simms

    simms CH Dog

    I am to sorry to read this. I know you have sacraficed much for your friend.
     

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