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Bull or Terrier???

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by ohav4, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. brenner

    brenner Pup

    just an after thought, if anyone is unfamiliar with any of the dogs mentioned, ie, wheaten terrier or glen of imaal, please dont hit the google images button and think that what you see are the dogs im speaking off, they are a completly different dogs, it would be like putting a k.c show staff in the same catagory as the working staff or same with pitbull and the american staff
     
  2. damon

    damon Banned

    I know a few lads with wheaten x lurchers and they are doing the business. Are the game staffs actually staffs or are they apbt? If not how can you define what is a game staff or apbt?
     
  3. brenner

    brenner Pup

    they are deffo staffs alright. the way i understand it[ and this not gospel] is that the few working staffs we have left in this country are descendants of a strain of irish bull terrier called the murphy strain and mainly kc staffs brought over from england. at the time these k.c staffs were not so far removed from game tested dogs. and the irish lads tested these dogs at badger trials which were legal at the time, and also matched them of course. there are still staffs around today from this stuff that have not been crossed with the a.p.b.t. they are deffo a different dog. in my humble oppinion i doubt there are many well bred staffs that could go the distance with the pitbull of today. im not saying a well bred staff is lacking in gamness but its just that the pitbull as we all know has been so well fine tuned and designed by selection to be the ultimate fighting machine, while alot of [not all] working staffs would have been bred towards field work i.e drawing badger, i suppose wind and wrestling ability wouldnt be at the top of your list when your breeding for dogs that will meet a badger mouth to mouth in a very tight space and try pull him out or fight him there. but in their defence i will say that i know lads will knock badger trial dogs by saying they just had to take hold and pull the badger 40 feet which i would say was impressive enough, but remember there was nothing stopping these lads when out on their own time from sticking something behind their dogs arse so he had to stay head to head with old billy in a tight spot for as long as they thought was enuf to satisfy their curiosity. i think the working staff definitly deserves his respects
     
  4. damon

    damon Banned

    True they may exist but surely they are the same breed as the apbt, obviously not all gamedogs were sent over the pond. With the right breeding and selection the dogs improve, today's dogs surely are at the peak of gamedog ability
     
  5. brenner

    brenner Pup

    damo, ide like to say i had all the answers but the truth is im only speaking from a learned point of view, i wasnt around in the days these dogs were being shaped as the breed they are today, but i know that there are lads on here that were around when the trials were taking place and maybe they would dissagree with some of what ive written, havin saying that im not just repeating stuff ive read on the net, i have a pal that was very involved with the staffs,wheatens, glens in the past. but until some old fcuker steps in and tells me to shut up im gonn keep tryin to answer,ha ha. i think even tho they started out as the same breed they are still very different dogs today. i think the irish and english certainly knew/know how to breed a game dog but as we all know the americans with time shaped these dogs into the ultimate fighting machine. when these dogs start coming back across the oceans in the 80s i gather that people that wanted dogs for matching dropped their staffs like a hot snot and started making room in their kennels for the real fighting machine the americans had shaped from the same type of dog. hence the decline in game tested staffs. thats not to say that the game staff didnt still have a place with lads that used them for the field work . as for all of the fighting dogs being sent across the pond, well i have theory on that. irish history is not a nice tale, we had a rough time of it. between colonisation,famine and and poverty i dont think that fighting dogs were high on are to do list for survival. however we did create and keep alive to this day other working breeds mentioned in an above post that served a purpose and there for earned their exsistence here
     
  6. six

    six Pup

    My english is bad but must say I had bulldogs(apbt) and jagds and to me it looks that bulldogs have terrier blood and terriers have some % of bulldog blood.Once 50-50 dog was made breedings went both ways.Some people add more bull and others add more terrier,back and forth to suite their needs.Everybody is right.
     
  7. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    ofcourse you"r right ....or are you ??
    welcome six .
     
  8. six

    six Pup

    Thank you for the welcome.There is no way we can know the truth but i like to sort dogs by what they do(and how they do it) and not by their looks.If that was the case back then its logical that some crosses of "good ones" were made.Just my opinion.
     
  9. dogman2007

    dogman2007 Big Dog

    i would say they are more bulldog than terrier percentage wise on a average as a breed,the terrier blood was added to make the size smaller,average old time bulldog was 60-80lb weight n 22-24in height , you can feed/meds to two 38lbs dogs for the same amount,also in some place were it was illigal the smaller dogs are easier to handle and pick up an run away if the law turns up .in certain lines you can see more terrier blood than others.

    p.s lots of other breed were added too anything that was good in the box.
     

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