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ALL GAME LITTERS

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by DISCOIII, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    There were two sons off Booger in NC some years back. They were well on their way to being talked about when their owner got popped for dope and gun possession. If one were to define gameness as the willingness to continue, they were both game. Putting a subjective word or subjective phrase to 'game' they would not fit the bill. Nothing was staying with either long enough to see if they were pit game, or deep game or dead game or just somewhat game.

    S
     
    rroscoe, nmdogs and niko like this.
  2. Rock n Rye

    Rock n Rye CH Dog

    without doubt consistently winning and showing to be game many times over. Shame that this stuff has fallen apart is now minimal these days.
     
    niko likes this.
  3. promoe

    promoe Top Dog

    a few litters that are also notable are paddy/booger, smiley/missk, viper/Charlie,,, and atleast 2 down off of gr ch shotsie that I know of..alot of freaks came down from her.

    I am pretty sure one or two pulled up in some the above litters but was already titled... I know this is an "all game litter" thread...I thought the above were worth a mention
     
  4. promoe

    promoe Top Dog

    I was gonna add yellow/breaker to that list
     
  5. DISCOIII

    DISCOIII Big Dog

    Yes definitely all of them are worth mentioning all solid litters something we all should strive for
     
  6. BOTP Kennels

    BOTP Kennels Big Dog

    I think it would be more common to see a scatterbred all-game litter
     
    slim12 likes this.
  7. DISCOIII

    DISCOIII Big Dog

    Tell me why you think that and what is your opinion of scatter bred.
     
  8. Interesting
     
  9. BOTP Kennels

    BOTP Kennels Big Dog

    I might of been speaking loosely with a all game scatterbred being more common..but how many family bred or line bred dogs have u seen perform lately..almost everything is outsrossed ot scatterbred. Not saying a family bred or line bred dog won't be game.. guess i got off topic a bit...
     
  10. promoe

    promoe Top Dog

    botp I think you are talkin more on the lines of an all box litter?
     
    BOTP Kennels and DISCOIII like this.
  11. BOTP Kennels

    BOTP Kennels Big Dog

    Yea bro..but it sorta goes hand in hand..you don't wanna bring a dog that's not game to the []
     
    bks and DISCOIII like this.
  12. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    But if all you bringing is gameness you might not make it home
     
  13. BOTP Kennels

    BOTP Kennels Big Dog

    I agree
     
  14. DISCOIII

    DISCOIII Big Dog

    That is true, but 99% of the time the gamer dog wins, over the years I have seen big blow outs and those were what I call the 1%. I don't have to mention there names we all know them from history, but most of them had to prove their gameness at some point in time, yes I know some like Shady Lady and others did not but with out gameness all we have is just a dog. Just step back and think of your own knowledge on what I wrote, remember the averages, most go 30 to 60 min and in the middle the truth usually shows. I have always tried to remember the averages in every thing with these bulldogs.
     
  15. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I see your point and agree to a point but I will differ on 99% of the time the gamer dog wins.

    I would drop that percentage down in the 80's, maybe even the low 80"s. As I think before I type I may go even lower.

    I can think of a number of dogs who were picked up game and the winner quit the next time out. I have seen a few dogs I thought were curs but had great mouth and tremendous conditioning. I have seen a number of gamer dogs simply get stopped by mouth, size and strength.

    S
     
    deadrabbitsoc., DISCOIII and promoe like this.
  16. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    I agree with Sllim on this one maybe not exactly with the percentages as I feel its even lower then 80% and more in the 70% range as there have been quite a few of rough and hard biting (game enough to win) dogs that beat gamer dogs on the regular.
     
    DISCOIII, BOTP Kennels and promoe like this.
  17. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    As I typed my opinion of the percentage was getting lower and lower.

    I think we all get a little nostalgic when it comes to gameness.

    The three legged, one eyed, chin scraping, belly crawling scratch has seldom led to a win. Most of the time he is the gamer of the two but not the better of the two, or the winner.

    For me, gameness almost has to be understood, almost like it is a given. Then the winning attributes are graded.

    There has been a ton of dogs who had such an incredible winning attributes/qualities there gameness never factored.

    Molly Bee won 8 times. No dog ever scratched back to her. That is complete and utter dominance. Odds are at least 2 of the 8 were gamer than her which would be 75%. It was once said no one had enough dog to see if she was actually game.

    Granted there are not a ton of Molly Bees out there but there a lot of freak mouthed, well conditioned dogs that win. If only 2 out of 10 do so that is already down to 80%.

    S
     
    DISCOIII likes this.
  18. promoe

    promoe Top Dog

    to keep it honest I think it really depends on what kind of company you keep and the circles you run in when it come to the %'s. Some circles might be 60 others 85.
     
    slim12, DISCOIII and PlugUgly like this.
  19. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Very true.

    My percentage opinions were across the board. If the top tier circle is 85% and then the lower circles are the 60's then they would average (percentage) will be in the 70's.

    That is why I disagreed with the 99% comment.

    Sort of like 'high percentage' producers. What is high percentage? Depends on what the original goal was and as the end goal is made more attainable the percentages go up. But if the end goals were carved in stone, say match winning dog, then across the board the percentages would be very, very low for all included.

    If the carved in stone was 'the reproductive systems are in tact' and I can get a return on my investment. Percentages across the board are really high.

    Percentages can be made to say anything. It is the original goals that dictate their value.

    Putting anything of 99% is difficult to back up. Factor in gameness and its multiple definitions, and getting a really high percentage is difficult.

    S
     
    DISCOIII and BOTP Kennels like this.
  20. DISCOIII

    DISCOIII Big Dog

    Yea you men are right I was writing with my heart and not with common sense as I still see these bulldogs as special and not like other breeds. I personally never had one quit on a hunt but I was always open and was just a 50% winner like a flip of a coin but when you are truly open I think these percentages are pretty close for most.
     
    bamaman likes this.

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