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E-collar/electronic collar

Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by GoneGrey, Mar 18, 2022.

  1. GoneGrey

    GoneGrey Pup

    Does anyone have any experience they can speak to regarding the use of e- collars with young APBT?

    I used one with my previous dog late in her life. It was very useful due to the fact that she had gone deaf in her later years, and helped effectively manage her dog aggression (we worked with a professional trainer and she quickly learned to ignore other dogs). She passed away and I recently got a new 8 week pup who has responded very well with traditional positive reinforcement training so far. I wonder if this tool has a place in her training going forward, or if it makes more sense to stick to traditional methods.

    She's a house pet, but I'm considering doing weight pull as she grows up.

    Thank you.
     
  2. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    I have used and still own, but I am generally against e-collars: regardless of breed, age, behavior, status.

    Not because they are inherently “cruel” (but can certainly be if used improperly), but because they are a remote device detached from the handler. Dogs are smart. They know when the collar is or isn’t on them and will push the handler’s limits accordingly. Some dogs - even with a continuous skin-frying jolt, will actually get more aggressive when in drive. Lesser dogs might become jittery and shy when the collar is on, not knowing when or why the jolt comes from the yahoo fumbling with the control and trying to get the correction timed right.

    Most effective, consistent manner to train and correct a dog for reliable behavior is through the leash and choke collar, and praise. The (traditional) Kohler method of dog training stands the test of time. JMO
     
    AGK and Michele like this.
  3. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog


    I don't know the particulars of your dog, but if you have a real game bred pit bull that collar is going to be about as effective as a fly. The dogs I ave had will eat through wood, steel (breaking their teeth off) or pretty much anything if they really want to get at something. If you think an e collar will slow these dogs down for one second you are in for a major bad experience. These dogs must always, always be on a very sturdy and secure lead. Yes they can be obedience trained but not by a little zap of electricity, that is just going to annoy them and not stop them from getting lose and killing fluffy, you next door neighbors dog. I had a dog that excelled at Shutzhund, but she was never ever off lead.

    Always, always keep you dog under control of a secure leash. Always carry a breaking stick. Never trust these dogs loose in the backyard for extended periods of time unless you have tried and true method of containment. There is a very good section on this forum for building such a containment. My dogs have always been house dogs, but don't rust them not to get lose when outside.
     
  4. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Here is a good thread on yard set ups. My dogs were (and will be) house dogs, but when you leave them out in the back, use one of these set ups. You don't have to drive a car axle into the ground, but do something like that. I used to have a kennel run when I had 2 dogs but they would fight at the chain link fence and my female ended up pulling all the wiring out to get at my male. If you only have one dog a good kennel run is an option. index.php

    If out in the front of your house always always have the dog on a secure lead. As far as dog aggression.....you can never get rid of it if it is a real game bred pit bull. They will still go even when on deaths door.
     
  5. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have used them for barking and what not when the dogs were here at the house/directly in the back yard. I don't mind barking when there is something there that is not normally there but I have/had really high strung Red Boy dogs that bark because leaves fall out of the trees, or the wind blows, or the sun comes up. I used a collar to keep the barking in check.

    I have never really socialized any of the bulldogs out in public as they seldom, if ever, went into public so I never worried about their manners.

    But the electric collar, when used properly, is a very effective tool. It also a very effective tool when used improperly as well, but that leads to a host of other problems. Collars are like any other tool. I have a really nice welder. I can make metal stick together but I would not call it welding. My son has a boat load of welding skills. Its the same welding machine but who is using it is completely different. His skill makes that welder very effective. Me, not so much.

    It can curb a lot of things. The problem is that dog aggression is seldom cured, in any dog. The collar may hide it but it will remain, and will wait patiently to that one point in time you are least prepared to handle it and let it out all at once.

    The best female I ever owned I got from a friend. We bought littermates from a guy. Mine did the chain life and his had the pet life. The vet, the dog park, the trainers, she was perfect little well mannered dog. When they were 8-10 months old mine was chomping at the bit on his chain and she was a perfect little princess in every situation. Then one day at the park as he trusted her to come in contact with another dog )while still on lead) a dog snapped at her and she let hell rain down. Some $3500+ dollars later in vet bills and legal bills (pit bulls are always in the wrong)
    he let me have her. She had zero work ethic because anytime the collar got tight she knew she was suppose to heel and when I used a weight collar it mimic-ed her e-collar and she was perfectly mannerable and would not exert effort in anything. The collar and the training built the dog he was looking for but it could only curb what was inside but could not cure it.

    It goes into the category of it is your dog and you have to build what fits you, understanding if the dog has 40-50 years of people trying to create one thing built in, making that go away is a hard ask. It is there, and you may never even see it, but it is there.

    S
     
  6. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    Not a good experience with an APBT and a shock collar, but good for those who have. They also have an more animal friendly E-collar that gives off a scent that the dog finds off-putting, this worked but was used on a different breed instead of an APBT. It will always lie dormant in them to a greater or lesser extent that which they were originally bred for.
     
  7. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    This quote from moderator slim 12 bears repeating and the OP (or anyone else new to the breed needs to read it 10 times over:
    "Then one day at the park as he trusted her to come in contact with another dog )while still on lead) a dog snapped at her and she let hell rain down. Some $3500+ dollars later in vet bills and legal bills (pit bulls are always in the wrong) he let me have her."

    I see this myth/belief repeated over and over again. "Oh it's all in the training. I will take my adorable pit bull that is so wonderful with my children to the park and teach her to get along with other dogs."

    No, you will not. Trust me, when I was new I tried and I almost lost my dog. My first dog was perfectly fine until 16 months and then the flip switched. It is not a matter of if, but when. It is interesting that Slim had some success using an e collar to get his dogs to stop barking, but it will not stop the dog from doing what it was bred to do.

    This is exactly the type of thing that gets laws made against our dogs, stay away from the dog park.
     
  8. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The collar worked on the barking. I have some I could let them hear some bird shot ripping thru the tree limbs. Then it gets to the point when the back door opens you could hear a pin drop. The proverbial church mouse.

    Now that they are no longer in the backyard they have pretty much zero manners. They jump on you, try to wrap your legs with the chain, and they bark again just to see if the last bark was a fluke.

    I am sure they are smart enough, well some of them, are smart enough to learn if I tried to teach.

    There is one out there right now hanging on a rope and spring working it like life depended upon it. It is 97 outside rigth now and the humidity will punch you in the face when you go outside. He will do this til he passes out and then he lays there til he gets his shit together. And then right back to work. I don't see his responding to a lot of training. He will not walk on a lead. From early on he grabs it and fights it like a hide. I am not sure if I gave up or just realized some things were just not meant to be. Maybe some of both. The only time he does not fight the hide is when he sleeps, (sparingly), when he eats )and that is a quick break) or when he is running with the ATV. He can open up and run forever but when we stop, he fights the lead.

    Some dogs, like a lot of people, can't seem to learn.

    S
     
  9. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog


    My friend you are just one man...and not superman. The only reason I have had success domesticating these dogs is because I never have more than 2 at a time. I will get a pup at 8 weeks. When I used to teach I ALWAYS got a pup when I had at least 2 weeks to devote 24/7 to that dog. No work, no young children (or wife was totally responsible) nothing. It started with it being crated next to my bed, and me taking it out every 2 hours around the clock for about 2 full days. Some dogs train faster, but absolutely nothing else in my life would get done, nothing. no work, no work out, barley feed myself and do the dishes.

    Once housebroken the leash training would start. Again this would be a serious commitment of several hours a day for several weeks. After about a month of this you would have a housebroken and leash trained dog. It would be far from 100% obedience gained, but manageable.

    Now, if I were to get a dog that had lived outside on a chain for more than 6-8 months there is no way in hell I could ever get that dog properly trained. Maybe someone could, but not me. I am pretty good with dogs, read every book on the subject of training (even the Monks of New Skeet) even did some Shutzhund, but it would take a much better man than me.
     
  10. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    All of mine STFU with e-collar training. Been using them for 20 some years. Most people who see my videos always say the same thing. Your yard is so quiet. It didn't get that way without a shock or 10. Some here, like my bitch Pumpkin or her granddaughter Jackie Rough, live with one on. Otherwise they'll go right back to barking within about 3 days. Others, never developed the behavior to begin with so they never wore one like Geach or Puro. Then there's the ones that need them for about a week or so, then they are good for about a year before they need reminded with another week of the collar.

    However, I have come across one dog that barked through them. A ridiculously inbred midnight cowboy bitch that was gifted to me. She was already an adult when I got her. Starting these dogs from pups with the collars is a lot more beneficial than putting one on an already grown, nuisance barker in one. Roberts Bella was retarded as fuck in every sense of that word, saddle backed, weak pasturn having retard, reminded me of satans lil helper from the simpsons lol but I'd bet if I had raised her as a pup, I'd of broke her of the barking issue before it even became an issue. I feel I could have curbed the behavior with a full grown adult too but she had other things I really didn't like about her so she only lasted about 3 months here. I got a pretty low tolerance for weak links and she was a structural nightmare that was really, really dumb. I also got very little patients with dogs who's cheese is sliding off the cracker and cant learn when to just be a dog. Anywho, I use the collars religiously, have used them for decades, they work very good if the owners is competent and persistent. I start mine on them around 6 months old. By a year old rarely does one ever have to wear one again. They learn to just be quite unless there is a reason not to be.

    Now, that is strictly for barkers. Using one to curb dog aggression isn't reliable at all. You're trying to correct a natural behavior in this dog. Once they are turned onto something, that little buzz followed by the highest shock these things give isn't going to even make the dog flinch let alone deter it. It will stay committed to it's task.. They'll kill the battery in the collar before the collar will prevent the dog from engaging another animal in more cases than not. If you don't want a dog that tends to be a shit head around other dogs then just avoid the issue by not getting one of these dogs...... Simple.
     
    che likes this.
  11. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Good stuff, should be required reading for anyone considering the breed. Stiky?
     

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