Feeding during a keep?

che · Dec 9, 2022

Elmo Vee said: ↑

Great articles indeed, thanks Slim.

So knowing your dog's true weight and condition on that weight will aid in correct water content? Because with that method I don't think you'll have to dry out to make weight since you've been on weight during keep
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in every professional performing sport competition you check your water how much u drink how much u eat what u eat and when you rest. If you have to perform at seriously level you need to be sure that’s everything on point and well. One off the biggest problem is now in the dogs when I put a dog at a certain weight other claim that the weight is not right. So if u have a bad eye and you choose wrong weight you go no matter what to the wrong direction

slim12 · Dec 9, 2022

True to a point.

Dogs are the only competition where the competition starts on a chosen weight and the athlete must then perform at that certain weight. The weight is called and some numbers of weeks later the dogs are weighed and then the competition starts. All other forms of weight class competitions compete at a different weight after weigh-in. The MMA/UFC seen a stretch where the guy that cut weight the best was allowed to "big dog and smother his opponent'. Not necessarily my two favorite fighters but two of the best weight cutters were GSP and Jonny Hendrix. GSP weighed in at 169/170 on Friday night and hydrated back to as much as 188/189 (against BJ Penn and simply big dogged him). Hendrix the same but read where Hendrix watered up 22lbs once. (stupid dangerous but super effective)

Secondly, all other sports have timed rounds, numbered rounds, pre-determined times and distances. Dogs, not so much.

If one has ever went scuba diving or worn any type of breathing apparatus there is some understanding. When the shit hits the fan, you breathe differently and the amount of air you have is on a timer. Imagine if your water weight was off and in so many words, your air was turned off at a hundred or more feet....or on the fourth floor of a burning building. Blowing hot is the same thing as running out of air except with the dogs there i sno bell/buzzer that says you have "X" amount of minutes left.

But I dod agree when one misses it is a slippery slope in most every instance.

S

che · Dec 10, 2022

That’s how it is… take everything serious in any kind of sport other wise the chances are big you will end up bad

Elmo Vee · Dec 12, 2022

slim12 said: ↑

Yes, water content affects weight. A dog can be a a true 40, can be called at 40 and show up at 40 and still be 'off-weight'.

Most of the time it can be attributed to water.

When worked a dog's organs, his coat and his bones will not change in weight hardly at all. Negligible at most.

What changes first is water content, then a loss of fat, followed by a shift in muscle weight. If that 40lb dog is pulled two tight, stripped of too much fat, and then the difference is made up from water the dog will more than likely blow hot from being 'wet'.

If the dog is heavy due to muscle mass or excess fat and the needed weight is removed via water, the dog will more than likely 'tie-up'.

Both pretty much look the same just the 'wet' affect usually shows up a bit quicker than the 'dry' affect. But the results are the same.

A not so scientific study can be done by watching dogs straight off the chain, that are fairly lean and fit, but have not been fed or watered via a 'keep'. That dog can come off the chain a do 30+ minutes of 'work' and just be tired and worn out at the end. Odds are he does not 'blow' or 'tie-up'. The reason is a dog with healthy kidneys will piss himself to his correct water weight.

The second part of the study will be that same dog can come off the chain and do 30 minutes of work gets to the show and after 10-12 minutes of standing in front of the confirmation judge 'blows out or ties-up'. The difference being is that his natural water weight was missed when we put ourselves in control.

And then late one Saturday night someone says he took to the keep good, was on weight and never did that in that 30 minute work off the chain.

Then, "it must have been the carpet mill". "It must have been the B vitamins". "it must have been the gas/juice". "they must have rubbed me".

But hardly ever, almost never, is it, "damn, I had a good dog and fucked him up".

Almost never. LOL

S
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That means there's a very thin line between wet n dry? I think most keeps miss water content because they dial to weight on the final week

Elmo Vee · Dec 12, 2022

che said: ↑

in every professional performing sport competition you check your water how much u drink how much u eat what u eat and when you rest. If you have to perform at seriously level you need to be sure that’s everything on point and well. One off the biggest problem is now in the dogs when I put a dog at a certain weight other claim that the weight is not right. So if u have a bad eye and you choose wrong weight you go no matter what to the wrong direction
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Very true, the first problem is conditioning the wrong dog and choosing the wrong weight is the second biggest problem.
Experience is essential when choosing true weight.

Elmo Vee · Dec 12, 2022

slim12 said: ↑

That is true but it goes a bit deeper. One of the old 'truths' was pick your dog's best weight and then add 1.

A person can miss that ideal weight by one, but have the water weight correct for the weight they chose and still have a shot (and from there-the better the dog the better the shot)

I was never a big fan of California Jack but he put out one of (if not) the best bulldog books going. It was such a good book that if he changed the name and took away the "Pitbull" and the pit bull stigma, it would have sold millions of copies as the information is super. He was really good at compiling information and putting it out to the masses.

He did a study once and found the average show length is :50-:55 minutes. I didn't believe it so I pulled out some old 'journals and times' and did the math. He was on point.

What I found that threw me a bit (and to get back to the original topic) was that a ton of multi winning dogs did so at different weights. So I dug deeper into that rabbit hole and found that dog's do have a true weight, but a lot also have a true operating window and the common denominator in those differing weights is water content.

I do believe a dog has a true 'ideal weight' but I also believe a lot of these dogs have that operating window. That 40lb dog that gets called at 39 and his three body weights of water, fat and muscle that are manipulated by man are correct, he can be a good dog at 39, maybe a better dog at 40 and a good dog at 41. But if that even better 40lb dog's water content is missed at 40lbs. both the history and the odds says he is out of there in less than :15-20.

And based on the dog, his composition, his natural cardio-pulmonary system (before kept or worked) and the abilities of the conditioner can have sometimes have a pretty big window. CH Charlie was worked 4 times. Twice at 46, once a 45 and once at 46.5. On his first it was called at 46 and he came in at 45.5 (missed the weight but he was correct for 45.5). He did well. In his second he went at 46, again correct, but I thought he was a better dog at 46 that 45.5. His third was at 45 but the other group was notorious for coming in a pound over, paying the forfeit and using that to buy an advantage, so we came in a pound over which sort of nullified both forfeits. (Always a part of the game). His fourth gathering was called at 47 and he showed at 46.5. Again, he was correct and performed as expected. Same dog but called from 45 to 47, with true weight being 46 but his operating window was 45-47.

Then as we travel down the rabbit hole of weight it is the ":30 minutes in factor". When the dog is a true 40 and after 30 or so minutes, he is now performing at 39 and dependent upon liquid loss could be a bit less. Miss the water content on this dog low at 40 when he gets down to 39, he may as well be 35 as he will fade quickly. Miss high and if gets thru the first ten minutes he will more than likely hide your shortcomings. (and not to speak ill of my fellow dog men, this happens way more often than we would like to think) This has always been alleviated by choosing his weight and then adding a pound, especially on a young dog. There is more room for error on a big dog than a small dog, mostly based on basic math.

As always, babbling. I am working a shit load of hours and the dayshifts and nightshifts are all sort of running together. Most days I do not know whether I am coming or going. It is near 3AM and I am wide awake knowing damn well I have a 12 hour shift staring me right in the face in just a handful of hours. But here I sit. LOL

S
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The method of adding 1lb on true weight makes sense especially if the dogs weight was determined by pulling the force when walking.
When that pound is added, the dog will fall to true weight after 30mins or so of performance,will still be strong.

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