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A Visit to Cockney Charlie's Canine Emporium (1880)

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by Robertosilva, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    A trip to Charles "Cockney Charlie" Lloyd's Kennels.

    From The New York "Truth and Nothing but the Truth" publication July 19th 1880.

    1880 july 19 new york truth and nothing but the truth 01.jpg 1880 july 19 new york truth and nothing but the truth 1.jpg

    Now that the sporting season and sport of every description is fairly under way all over this great continent, trotting, running, baseball, Lacrosse, and athletic sports are in full blast, and the fleet-footed coursers are contending for rich prizes, and the breeder, with an eye to the future, is leisurely taking notes of the points of his young stock. The cock fighter, also, has not forgotten his chickens, and, while seeking relaxation from the toils of the busy city, finds not only solace but derives a source of pleasure from his stags, the pedigree and strains of blood in which he can trace far back. In fact, these are to him what the thoroughbred is to the turfite, the pure blooded and high-bred short-horn to the gentleman farmer, and whose pedigree can be traced for many generations in the stud book.

    A Veteran

    Those who use dogs for sporting purpose, either for fighting or for sport of some description, and this in their own particular way, have their peculiar ideas of breaking them. In order to learn something of the methods practised in the training and handling of fighting dogs, A Truth reporter yesterday called upon Mr. Charles Lloyd, who rejoices in the soubriquet of "Cockney Charley." at his residence on the West side of the city, in order to be enlightened as to the mysteries of this somewhat fashionable sport. This affable gentleman is one of the best known fanciers in Europe and America and possibly the best judge of a bull-dog in the world, havbing been in this business for the past thirty-five years, having fought battles in England with his dogs no less than twenty-nine battles, of which he won no less than twenty-eight, and these for considerable sums of money. He has won no less than six prizes since his arrival in this country, with dogs imported by him from the other side. The reporter's inquiries as to the method of training the animals elicitated the following statement;

    Developing Muscle

    The dogs are kept in separate kennels, and carefully guarded. They are fed upon the best of food, bread, meat and biscuit being their chief diet prepared at the hands of their trainer, their exercise, whilst in training, being long, steady walks of several hours' duration, led by an assistant. Their work is not alone confined to this, as the practised man has what is called a wheel, with a circular surface of wood revolving on a pivot and to which there are strips of wood attached, similar to a wheel in a squirrel’s cage or not unlike the everlating staircase, commonly called the tread-mill or tread-wheel. On this the animal is placed and kept vigorously at work, thereby using and bringing all his muscles into play and thus conditioning himself.

    Too much of this kind of exercise, however, is not allowed, as the watchful eye of the trainer is on his charge all the time, and the faithful animal is as well or better taken care of than the majority of children. He is carefully sponged, brushed down and every attention paid to him, even none of Mr. Bergh's disciples having thus far had any occasion to complain or to take any action against the dog fanciers in this matter, as they keep within the law and no cruelty is practiced.

    The Dog's Delight

    The reporter was, after the usual preliminaries had been gone through, asked to follow the veteran to his kennel, situated in the rear of the establishment, and invited to inspect the canines. On making his appearance the animals apparently were considerably annoyed at the stranger’s appearance, and evidenced their resentment at his intrusion by a series of barks and other manifestations of anger. Some of them appeared as if they woulf have been delighted to have had an opportunity to show their displeasure in a more tangible way. A word, however, from the master of the establishment soon caused order to be restored and the inspection was proceeded with without further trouble.

    The following dogs were found in his Kennel:

    Toby, The Fool.

    The first to whom our attention was called was the brindle and white dog Toby (the fool), two years old, and weighing, when in condition 21 pounds. This animal was bred by John Holden of Walsall, of England, and was got by Ralph Small's dog Billy out of Harry Spittel's celebrated slut Beauty, of Wednesbury. This dog has his ears and tail whole, and when only eleven months old fought the celebrated dog Tom Sayers, at Walsall, and defeated him in 1 hour, 45 minutes. This was his first performance in the pit, and since his arrival here he has fought no less than three battles, in all of which he has been victorious, defeating the champion slut Rosy, of Brooklyn, for $200 a side, in 27 minutes, and the celebrated dog Cass, whom he fought at twenty-one pounds weight for $1,000 a side, in Long Island, and whom he vanquished in 26 minutes.

    Two Invincibles

    Paddy, a red and white dog of 26 to 27lbs weight and 2 and a half years of age, was the next to whom the reporter's attention was called. The animal won two fights in England for $500 a side each battle, and since his importation has also landed two fights, both for $250 a side each event.

    Durham, our old friend, was next visited. He is a red and white dog and weighs about 26lbs,; was bred by the well-known sport, John Hawkins of Walsall; his sire's pedigree is unknown, but his mother was a well-known slut by Captain, a dog who gained many victories in the pit. Durham is now in the acre and yellow leaf, but in his day defeated Jack Holden's dog for $500 a side in 28 minutes, and also George Joyce's slut for the same amount in 32 minutes. Taken to London he vanquished Jack Brown's canine in 1 hour and 25 minutes for $500 a side; he has also fought three battles since his arrival here, in all of which he has been victorious.

    Other Fancy Pets

    Nellie, a white slut, 17lbs weight and 1 and a half years old, bred by Fred Reeves, of Birmingham and got by Tom Parson's celebrated dog Swan Lane Billy, and out of his slut Tette, is possibly the handsomest of the kennel. This animal, though very young, has fought three times in the old country, the first battle for $250 a side, from all of which she came out victorious.

    Nip, a brindle and white dog, 2 years old, weighs 29lbs, was bred in Waterford, Ireland, and when a puppy. 10 months old, fought for $500 a side, and defeated his antagonist in 1 hour and 45 minutes, and has since fought two battles, coming out of each victorious.

    The veteran dog fancier has several other animals at his well-known hostelry. None of these, however, call for any especial comment, but to those who wish to see and learn the points of a good dog, a little practical instruction at his hands will benefit those interested in the canine race. After making the inspection of the kennel the conversation naturally turned upon "dawgs", and on this the veteran is an enthusiast, and duly, and at length, descanted upon the merits of the faithful animals; but time and tide wait for no man, and after receiving a pressing invitation to call again upon the old gentleman, our reporter wished him good evening and took his departure.
  2. niko

    niko CH Dog

    Nice share RS
    Robertosilva likes this.
  3. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    Pilot didn't arrive in Charlie Lloyd's Kennels til the next year.

    An article in The New York Evening Express June 16 1881 on English Boxer Mr Holden's visit to America mentions he is staying with "Cockney Charley" who has recntly acquired Pilot.

  4. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    Thanks. I hate typing out stuff but the Newspaper article was nearly un-readable.
    niko likes this.
  5. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    Tiger a dog owned by Charlie Lloyd in 1885

    From New York National Police Gazette June 11th 1885.

    ngamla and niko like this.
  6. WNK

    WNK Premium Member Premium Member

    Awesome read, thanks for for typing.
    The more I read from the past days (1900 +/-) the more I feel the dogs were better at that time than they are today.
  7. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    Before The Crib Vs. Pilot Match Mr Lloyd was already on the Police's Radar.

    New York Sun – Oct 8 1881

    Cockney Charley and his Dog.

    Charles Lloyd, “Cockney Charley.” Owner of the fighting dog Pilot matched for a $2,000 fight with Crib, a Louisville dog, after being shadowed for some weeks by Mr. Bergh’s officers, disappeared with his dog from this City. Despatches were sent to the agents of the society in Ohio, Kentucky, and other states and yesterday Mr. Bergh received a letter from the Secretary of the society in Cincinnati, Mr A. A. Clark, saying that Lloyd is keeping a saloon there, and avers that he has no intention to have his dog engage in a fight. Mr Clark writes: “We believe nothing that he says, and will try and catch him and his crew. They will no doubt cross the river and add one additional stain to the “dark and bloody ground of Kentucky.” The fight was to come off in the third week of the present month.



    After the fight Cockney Charlie fled to Boston

    DOG FIGHTERS INDICTED - Brooklyn New York Daily Union Argus - Oct 29 1881

    Louisville, Ky., Oct. 29. – The Grand Jury has indicted the principals in a notorious dog fight – Louis Krieger, who pitted “Crib”, and Charles Lloyd (Cockney Charley) the owner of “Pilot.” The Circuit Court authorities concealed the fact from the press in order that the bench warrants, which at once were issued for the accused parties, might be served, but Lloyd and his associates were beyond the jurisdiction of Kentucky before sunset on the day of the match.


    December 24th 1881 – National Police Gazette

    Charles Lloyd’s “Cockney Charlie.” Dogs Paddy and Pilot are now located at Portland Street, Boston. Either of the dogs can be matched to fight for $1,000 a side against any 27.5 or 28 pound dog in America.

    Jan 4 1882 – National Police Gazette


    Pilot Vs. Ned

    Cockney decided against using Sheffield George the man who Conditioned Pilot in his win over Crib, instead the opponent Ned was conditioned and handled by Sheffield George.

    New York Sun - Oct 21 1882


    A Savage Battle in which Ned Out-wrestles out gnaws Pilot.

    A Dog fight, the talk about which has agitated sporting men for three months, took place yesterday within ten miles of this city, on Long Island. Cockney Charley, a famous dog fancier, formely of England, sent home about two years ago for the best fighting bull terrier dog in the world. Pilot, who is a brindle and white dog, fighting weight 27 pounds, and who is now 4 years old, was sent over. He had fought several battles on the other side and one here when he was 2 and a half, years old. He whipped and killed the champion dog Crib of Louisville, Ky., and won $1,000. The match he fought yesterday was for $1,000 against Ned, formerly owned by the Daly Brothers of Boston. Ned is a white dog, with yellow spots on ear ear. He has in trial fights killed two good dogs. He is three years old. He was stolen when he was a pup from Brooklyn. Sporting men were present from Louisville, Ky., Troy, Buffalo, Boston, Philadelphia, Providence, and numerous other places, making an assemblage of at least 500 persons. Each dog was to scale at 27 and a half, pounds.

    After order had been restored a well-known sporting man Brooklyn was chosen referee, and W. E. Plummet time keeper. Ned won the toss for corners. The handlers were Cockney Charley, the owner of Pilot, and Sheffield George. The reputation Pilot had gained in his previous battles made him a favourite at the odds of $100 to $80, at which figures a heavy amount of money was invested.

    At 4:28 Pilot was lifted into the Pit. Having been washed down and tasted to see whether any poisonous substance had been used, he was hidden behind a screen, and then Ned was subjected to a similar process. At 5:07 the battle was begun.

    Ned went over to his antagonist in the crack of a whip. He caught him by the ear and rolled him on his back, both dogs fighting at all points magnificently. Before this fight Pilot had always won by superior wrestling. Ned's quick action surprised all. Pilot, however, soon caught a good hold on Ned's shoulder, which is his favourite tactics, and, fighting like a tiger for thirty-one minutes, buried his teeth deep into Ned's shoulders and crunched them to pieces. At this stage Pilot, by forcing the fighting so savegely and punishing Ned so severly, seemed to have everything his own way, and the betting rose to $100 to $40 on him, with no takers.

    When an hour had passed, Ned, by sheer gameness, fought himself out of the scrape, and Pilot, by his fast fighting, had begun to get weak. Then Ned, who had been fought almost to a standstill, took courage and began in turn to knaw with good effect at Pilot's legs, ears, nose, and throat. The Brooklyn men were very much excited, and shouted that they would bet $75 against a $100 on Ned. At the expiration of an hour and twenty minutes Cockney Charley appealed to the referee that Pilot was fanged, that is to say, that his lip had caught on one of his own teeth. The crowd shouted, "Shut up; let the dogs alone." Finally, when the noise had subsided somewhat, Cockney Charley made the referee understand that a clause had been inserted in the articles that in case either dog was fanged they were to be parted. The referee ordered this done.

    Cockney Charley took Pilot to his corner and cut the tooth loose. Then, it being Pilot's turn to scratch, he was let go. He gamely flew across the pit. But Ned secured a punishing grip on his nose, chewing it so dreadfully that Pilot's backer presented a woebegone appearance, and amid intense excitement, Ned's backers were shouting, "I'll bet $100 to $10." Pilot was lying helpless and was taken to his corner. The dogs were both covered with gore. Before they were let go to scratch Ned growled and yelped to get at his enemy. He sprang away like a flash and sank his teeth into Pilot's nose and legs, throwing him down, and afterwards dragging him around the pit. The dogs scratched several times, Pilot being fanged in each bout. He couldn't bite, yet he fought all the more with his legs. When the betting was $100 to $10 on Ned, with no responses, Pilot, to the surprise of everybody, got new wind, and fought almost with his former vigour. The betting became even, but it was only for a few minutes, Ned being still the stronger dog although his shoulders and legs were bitten to pieces. At length after obtaining a death hold, he began to eat Pilot's life out. Then cries arose from the crowd, "Charley, give it up", seeing that his dog would surely be killed, he said he would give $25 to have the privilege of taking his dog away. Sheffield George, much to the satisfaction of the spectators, accepted this proposition, and the dogs were separated. Both of them were torn and cut all over, and it seemed a wonder that either of them had any life in him. Ned, in accordance with the referee's decision, was hailed the winner of one of the gamest battles ever seen in this country, in 2 hours and 2 minutes 30 seconds.

    Bleeding and mangled the dogs were borne from the pit amid the cheers of Ned's backers. It was thought by good judges that Pilot's fighting days were over, and that he is certain to die. It was estimated that $10,000 changed hands on the result.

    Dec 16 1882 – Police Gazette


    Nov 3 1883 – Police Gazette


    March 29 1884 – National Police Gazette


    Attached Files:



    two thumbs up,,,
    another great addition to the site!!!
    Robertosilva likes this.
  9. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    An Account of The Pilot Crib Battle
    Sins of New York
    As "Exposed" by the Police Gazette
    By Edward Van Every

    (Saves Typing the rest)

    It was around 7:15 when the dogs were weighed in. Pilot scaled twenty-seven
    and three-quarters pounds, being one-quarter of a pound heavier than Crib.
    Betting was "pretty lively even up" as the referee tossed up a silver, or
    what the report describes as a trade dollar, for choice of corners and
    washing. Kreiger won the toss and decided Pilot should be washed first. In
    Garr's farmhouse everything was ready for the washing. In the kitchen, in
    which were Mrs. Garr's two daughters and a baby, the washing was done in the
    presence of the referee. Pilot was placed in a tub of warm water and washed
    thoroughly, he was then washed in warm milk, and Kreiger tasted him to see
    if there had been any red pepper placed upon him. Pilot was then dried with
    towels which had been examined by the referee and then put in blankets.
    Crib was then "put through the same course of sprouts." And now the dogs
    were brought to the pit, which, we are given to understand, was surrounded
    by some of the most important men of Louisville.

    Intense excitement prevailed when the dogs were placed in the pit. Chief of
    the Louisville Fire Department Hughes announced the desire of the referee
    that both handlers be searched. The handlers searched each other's clothes
    thoroughly, being solicitous that nothing was concealed that might cause
    injury to the opposing dog. When this ceremony was gone through with, the
    word was given at 9:20 to let go the dogs. Their blankets and muzzles were
    speedily removed and the dogs set at liberty.
    But let Mr. Harding tell the
    story in the words he reported in the paper of which he was the sports

    Both uttered low growls, and then, with one savage bound, Crib sprang to
    Pilot's corner and attacked his antagonist. He caught Pilot by the nose, but
    the brindle dog shook him off and grasped him by the right leg. Pilot
    loosened his hold upon Crib's leg to get a better one upon his throat. Crib
    succeeded in freeing himself, and once more caught Pilot by the nose, only
    to loosen it almost instantly and seize Pilot by the back of the neck and
    ear, throwing him down. While down Pilot got Crib by the breast and had a
    terrible hold, but being unable to retain his hold to any good advantage,
    let go and grasped Crib by the left ear. Then in turn Pilot loosened the
    ear-hold and got Crib's left front leg between his molars. As he pressed his
    jaws together the bones in Crib's leg fairly cracked. This terrible
    punishment seemed only to enrage the Louisville dog the more, for with one
    great effort he threw Pilot five times in succession with the ear hold. Crib
    again seized Pilot by the nose, which, by the way, seemed to be his favorite
    hold, and once more downed the New York dog. As quick as a flash he let go
    Pilot's nose and went to chewing Pilot's front leg. With the fighting that
    Crib was now doing the Louisville people thought him a sure winner of the

    But it now came Pilot's turn to do some fighting, and the manner in which he
    viciously chewed Crib's left leg was terrible to behold. Crib, with a growl,
    broke loose only to be caught again in the same way. With another effort
    Crib once more gained his freedom, and for fully five minutes the dogs
    fought with ear-holds, until finally Pilot downed Crib and while holding him
    by the ear, bumped his head on the floor of the pit. Crib secured a hold on
    Pilot's throat, and although only fighting on three legs, succeeded in
    throwing his antagonist. This seemed to incense Pilot, for he threw Crib
    with a throat-hold and again with a hind-leg-hold. Crib returned with a
    leg-hold on Pilot, and then a bet of $100 was made that Crib would win the
    fight. The bet was promptly taken by "Cockney Charley," the owner of Pilot.
    The fight had now lasted forty-two minutes. Crib succeeded in getting from
    under his adversary, but the poor critter's gameness was gone. He turned to
    the side of the pit and was in the act of leaping out when he was grabbed by
    the brindle dog and dragged back into the field of battle. Crib was a
    whipped dog at this moment, but Pilot, not content with the victory already
    achieved, determined to kill his antagonist while the opportunity of so
    doing was at his command. Crib once more turned to the side of the pit, and
    this time succeeded in getting outside, followed by Pilot, who seized the
    Louisville pet by the under jaw and, clinging on to him, refused to loosen
    his hold, necessitating the picking up of the dogs together and placing them
    again in the pit. Pilot threw Crib in the corner with an ear-hold and held
    him there. Kreiger fanned Crib vigorously with his hat, but did the dog no
    good, for he was fast failing. From this time on Pilot did nothing but
    endeavor to shake the little life out of Crib that still remained.
    The fight lasted exactly one hour and twenty-five minutes.
    Just as the winning party reached the depot to make their departure for New
    York, up dashed Kreiger and said to "Cockney Charley" Lloyd:
    "I told you I would stand treat if I lost, and I'm here to keep my word."
    And he kept his word. No getting away from it, the Louisville gentleman was
    a thorough sport. He amply proved this when he permitted his nearly dead dog
    to be dragged back into the pit by the conquering Pilot.
  10. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    An Earlier match between Jack and Crib.

    Jack and Crib - Brooklyn NY Daily Eagle (1879)

  11. Robertosilva

    Robertosilva CH Dog

    Paddy vs Tricksy - New York Sun (sept 1880)

  12. ngamla

    ngamla Big Dog

    Awesome reading. Thanx
  13. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. B.I.S.

    Nice post thus BUMP !!!
  14. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    Great reading
    stedz and F.W.K. like this.

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