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Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by semo, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. semo

    semo Top Dog

    I was under the impression that these dogs are still apbt if you want to ignore the working aspect of these dogs, but after reading a bit more i saw people calling them AM STAFF.. Can anyone clarify ? They dont look quite like what i visualize an am staff as.
  2. SouthernDixie

    SouthernDixie CH Dog

    I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I think Lar-San veered more towards the show ring stuff - which when bred for show, whether or not it is reg. AmStaff or APBT, a great number of people will call it an AmStaff.
  3. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Well, it depends on how you look at it. Some folks think a staff is a dog who is AKC reg. or goes back to AKC reg. stuff. Others think any dog bred for the show ring is a staff.

    IMO Lar-San/RoKi Red are still pit bulls. They are UKC reg. show dogs, but most have proper pit bull conformation & many still have the proper drive & grit that characterizes the pit bull. But because they are bred for the show ring, some ppl will call them staffs, although neither line has any actual staff blood.

    As a side note, red noses are a fault in the AKC & very, very few true staffs have red noses.

    Hope this helps! ;)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2006
  4. MASON

    MASON Big Dog

    Just to piggy back on what ABK said. Lar San and ROKI breed UKC show and pull APBTS. Lar San dogs were bred down from OFRN Hemphill/Wilder/Sarona lines. Due to selective line breeding Sandy was able to produce the look/drive she was looking for in APBT. Which brings us the Lar San dogs of today. They are not Amstaffs by blood and do not have any Amstaff blood in them. Performance wise they are not gamebred dogs but from time to time they can exhibit signs of dog aggro and act sort of hot. They are UKC showbred APBTS. If you are looking for gamebred dogs go to a breeder that breeds gamebred dogs
  5. semo

    semo Top Dog

    I am not looking for gamebred dogs.
  6. MASON

    MASON Big Dog

    If you are looking for UKC/ADBA showbred then larsan wouldn't be a bad choice. But technically they are not AMSTAFFS.
  7. semo

    semo Top Dog

    that is all good, because "technically" i dont want an AM STAFF

    gonna send you a PM mason
  8. pennsooner

    pennsooner CH Dog

    IMO, Pitbulls. Make no mistake, some Lar-San, Roki-red dogs are among the tip-top Pitbulls being used in Bite sport in the US. So those are dogs that can really work and work quite well. They just aren't being worked by being matched.
  9. 14rock

    14rock GRCH Dog

    Bred for show=staff. How was the Amstaff breed created? By breeding game stock away from the pit (for the most part) and towards show standardized forms. These ukc "pitbulls" are the EXACT same thing, 100 years later. Start with the same stock, breed for the same standards and you get the same dog. A amstaff by any other name.....
  10. twiztidpitz

    twiztidpitz Top Dog

    I'm with ABK on this one. The Lar-San dogs have lots of drive and determination as a game bred, as well as the conformation part. A good friend of ours at Red Rover Kennels has this male
    He is an awsome looking dog with lots of drive from what she has told me. I've seen some of his offspring, and they to have the game dog attitude.
  11. 14rock

    14rock GRCH Dog

    What is the "game dog attitude"? Any dog can act like a fool at the end of the leash.
  12. planecrazy

    planecrazy Big Dog

  13. 14rock

    14rock GRCH Dog

    Ask bulldozer, his dog was a pup off the type of breeding you are inquiring about. Dakota chief bred to a Vietnam kennels redboy/jocko/hollingsworth dog.
  14. DS_Lady

    DS_Lady Pup

    I realize that I'm adding to an OLD thread, but here's some clarification:

    Ro-Ki is a breeder utilizing (APBT) Lar-San, Sarona, and OFBA.

    Lar-San was Larry and Sandy Comer's kennel: Hemphill/Wilder and I believe some Crouse is what they used. After Larry died Sandy, who apparently is more of an Am. Staff enthusiast, started breeding Am. Staff litters. That may be where the confusion comes into play. The Lar-San rednoses are definitely APBT.
  15. performanceknls

    performanceknls Top Dog

    I have several Lar san dogs and several game bred dogs. While my Lar san dogs have drive, you cannot compare show bred to game bred they have very obvious differences in drive type. I have yet to have a Lar san dog that can do what my game bred dogs can do in performance events. The Lar San dogs I consider APBT's and not AST's. If you know what an AST is in structure Lar San dogs are far from that. I know Dual CH UKC/ADBA Lar San dogs and they are fine looking animals. So since some are talking about show bred=AST, then if you have a dog from an ADBA knl that shows there dogs and many do bred for the ring now, are they AST's even if they are game bred? After all, show bred= AST then it wold make them AST's.
  16. gilamonster

    gilamonster Big Dog

    "Though I've seen and had red nosed dogs that would quit like a turkey, when I start breeding for color I'll sure call them Staffordsires because that's all they will be in a couple of generations." Howard Heinzil
  17. DS_Lady

    DS_Lady Pup

    I just wanted to repeat myself in saying that Sandy Comer (from Lar-San) has bred UKC/AKC Am. Staffs after her hubby died.

    Therefor, the "San" half of Lar-San has produced ASTs, but they're still Lar-San dogs nonetheless.


    There is only one kinda APBT. When people don't cull after a few gens you get a AmStaff or german shepard or whatever you wanna call it... Nobofy has a true bred american PIT bull terrier..... LOL... NAH 4real you will know if you have a APBT if you got one
  19. if they were bred exclusively for the show ring, then yes. they wouldn't be gamebred in that case. it doesn't matter what registry they are registered with, they have nothing to do with what breeders select for. we all know that there have been/are dual CH and GrCh that were very much gamedogs (or good matchdogs in the very least).

    i personally don't see that much difference between a majority of the UKC dogs and AmStaffs..they all suffer from the same health issues and both are bred to conform to a written standard. alot of these breeders of UKC showdogs just like the way "APBT" rolls off their tongue instead :cool: imo.

    with that said...i feel the Lar San dogs are ASTs with UKC papers.
  20. performanceknls

    performanceknls Top Dog

    You have some good points and I mostly agree, when you breed for show you lose much of the original function.

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