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Black pups out of red dogs???

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by PITPAL1, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    Has anyone seen black pups out of red X red parents?
    Just got back from looking at some 3 week old pups and out of the 6 three were black and one was a black faced brindle pup. I’ve seen red dogs produce white pups and red nosed brindles but This is the first time I’ve ever saw this. Furthering my concern is that black and brindle pups appeared to me to be several days older. I never met this guy before this morning and although he seemed honest I have my concerns.
    Hopefully some seasoned breeders and dog men can share their experiences.
    Thank you.

    “It’s more like right now than it ever has been”
     
  2. San Siro

    San Siro Big Dog

    I think black color is the strongest color in genetics. So perhaps a other male is the father or there are black dogs in generations back.

    Also with people it happens if you will believe what you read, that 2 white person can get colored babys. Because of generations back there was a colored person in there ancestors.

    Never have it happened myself.
     
  3. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    I have. Even in other animals. Such as angus beef cattle.
     
  4. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    I have been doing my own testing of genetics to get ideas. Recently I had a litter. I bred the bitch to two males. One was a brother sister breeding. The other was an outcross to a dog that topside goes back to the same genetics(jeep and redboy) along with other dogs that are similar and the bottom side is heavy bred Bettendorf Alligator blood. Most the dogs in the outcross studs pedigree are buckskin, yellow, or black.
    I am to send the DNA to verify the sire of this litter soon.

    The dogs all came out with colors and marks of the brother and sister that were bred and none of them seem to resemble the outcross male that was also allowed to breed.

    The blood in the bro and sister is older and more dominant based on the fact that is is Colby blood and it tends to pull heavy in any cross, as it does predate most new lines.

    Crazy shit can happen in genetics. Nobody will ever know it all, as much as they wish to, there are just to many factors to consider and too many blanks to fill in
    DNA profiles ...only go back as far as it was available. ..
    Some would never DNA profile their dogs. I think it is a great way to learn more about the dogs, some things the eyes can't see, but DNA may open eyes also.

    Cheers fella
     
  5. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    How did your brother sister breeding turn out?
     
  6. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    UPDATE
    I consulted with my vet as well as several on-line resources. Two red nose (genetically speaking) can NOT produce black or black nose pups. This is not the case for dogs that are chocolate, liver, or any other variation, as they are not genetically red nose dogs.
    After calling the man with the dogs and politely arguing for 30 minutes he admitted that he stuck her to a chinaman bred stud but believed it was to late and that she had already took.
    I also found an old post on this site with tons of replies. The consensus and scientific data supports the notion that apbt that are genetically red can NOT produce black nose pups.
    They simply cannot be carriers of black genes. If they were carriers they would be black or black nose dogs with the red being recessive.
    Thanks
     
  7. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Then pups are about a month and very surprising.

    As of as it seems, I do not believe anyone really knows how genes mutate. As the definition. If the very word is very is evidence of that.in my opinion.

    Recently I went to a show in Mississippi. I met a friend I had known on Facebook for some years.
    He had a gyp with him, bred by him, out of dogs that has no dominate red nose dogs up front in the pedigree. The gyp he had was whatnid call ca chimera genetic mutation. The gyp has a half red nose and a half black. This along with coat.
    With this type of genetic variation/mutation I personally believe that anything is possible.

    The gyps pedigree was from Rocca and Garner stock crossed. I am. Ot able to add the pic because it's hard to on here he also sent me pedigree and ADBA papers of the gyp to look at.

    Recessive genetics do strange things. That I do know.
    There was someone who shared a very Interesting article about this thst explained how it is possible. I will see if I can find it.
     
  8. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/genetics-basics-coat-color-genetics-in-dogs


    Sorry about the bad typing.
    I personally have seen red (possible.concidered.liver by the book)red nose Angus cattle come from black ones. There were both color type.in the ancestors.

    It is very Interesting to learn. And I'm.not.sure.this is the article I read or not.. but is similar.

    Let us know what you. Find.

    This two colors.have always been Interesting to me. As my opinion the red nose dogs came from black dogs primarily, and the red nose was a dilute if the black based on inbreeding or lining up of certain recessive genes.

    I'm no qualified genetic guru,. Unit.is very interesting and I try to learn about them.
    This is why.my.whole yard is now, and the pups soon will be DNA profiled. Parentage confirmed for atleast four maybe five generations.
    Because I want to know what.i am doing. Even if some info or.findi gs.are.after.the fact.
     
  9. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    That's a bad situation to find yourself in. At this point you really can't trust what you are told from the breeder. If the fella has a incredible history with the dogs I could see taking a chance on the pup. If it's Joe blow from around the way he taking that dog back and I'm getting the money returned.
     
  10. patjr

    patjr Top Dog

    Your 'gut' feeling is tell you something...... now is the time to listen to it or else it will always be there.
     
  11. chili

    chili Pup

  12. Pullingcovers

    Pullingcovers Big Dog

    I have exotic game dog white with black stripes I also have all black dogs with pink noses ! You can own one for 15,000 but if your serious cash me 2,000 so I can know your serious
     
  13. Pullingcovers

    Pullingcovers Big Dog

    Pm me if your serious
     
  14. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    L
    Luckily no money changed hands, nor will it. And while I know these pups may turn out great, I want what I want. Some say don’t worry about the pedigree, only worry about the breeder and their record and reputation for turning out quality animals, but I like knowing how an animal is represented is accurate. With current DNA testing I believe that in another 10 years it will be standard practice for verifying pedigrees. I’m many cases it already is, especially in the horse world. What is your view on the importance of a pedigrees accuracy when purchasing a new pup? If you had to weight it between the breeders reputation and knowing the pedigree is properly represented how would the scale balance?
    Thansk
     
  15. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    For anyone
    who is interested here is the previous post in this same subject. Some interesting reading
    https://game-dog.com/index.php?threads/can-2-red-red-noses-produce-a-black-nose.35993/page-4
     
  16. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    For me it's it's a unbalanced scale. When acquiring outside stock I don't consider the pedigree. I consider the one behind the dog first. Secondly the individual dog. Man, performance, protection in that order. What I need to see is are they using what they breed, are other folks having success with the dogs. From that point on the rest is up to me and I will write my own pedigree.
     
    patjr, PITPAL1 and chili like this.
  17. chili

    chili Pup


    The dude lied by omission about the pups’ sire. Liars and bullshitters don’t get a dollar from me. Had he been honest from the get, he’d at least have his integrity left LOL!
     
    patjr likes this.
  18. chili

    chili Pup

    As you say, pup may have turned out to be all you wanted but best to start off on the right foot.

    Anyways, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor for a pup.
     
  19. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    Thank you,
    I’ve had a hard time finding something that’s close enough to drive and see in a day.
    If anyone has any advice or can point me in a direction it would be much appreciated.
     
  20. Pullingcovers

    Pullingcovers Big Dog

    Honestly I’m not trying to tell you what do but if you have a reliable transporter or are close to pa you should talk to AGK he is a strait shooter will he sell you a dog ?I have no idea ! But if wasn’t up to the gills in dogs right now I’d give 1 a try shit I’d make room for 1 if had a source for reliable transportation of getting the dog in my hands ! I don’t trust transporters especially 1s that transport a lot of bulldogs or are in the dogs ! That’s just what works for me !
     

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