CH Black Mup.

how would you call these dogs my friend:
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=136198
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=230645,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=144038,0
?

 

These are crosses with Silver. Not Silver bloodline. Mainly Silver with scatterbred lines...

 

Just because the peds of the individuals are linebred around Silver, doesn't make them Silver dogs. The rest of the peds are all around the place...
No specific concept on those breedings. Just shoot and continue with whatever we are satisfied, I assume... Culling must be strict to maintain quality.
As I said before, if Silver was bred within his family (linebred or inbred), then his descedants would be called Silver bloodline.

 

Hmmmmmmm Sorrells and Snooty same blood..It clicks very well!

 

A lot y'all don't know..Silver blood is a llil different than Sorrells .That's your Uncle Bud blood.Bert had 2 different families and when crossed the right way was straight beast.

 

https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=132046
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=98817,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=185913,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=102600,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=71924,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=158680,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=112010,0
my friend,its not just a few dogs i posted... I do agree people here dont know much about the breeding,but these dogs are linebred on silver in my opinion. what is linebreed on frisco in your opinion? can you post these pedigrees to show me example?
Pera never culls dogs and I support that. curs should be removed from breeding,I do agree on that but I dont support killing them.
Pera is strange man. I cant say is it luck or he do know something i dont,but the best litter he have now and he repeated that breeding 3 times was from 2 curs. he got top match dogs from it. I dont know why he did it,but he was said from the straight,he will get monsters from it from time they were pups. One of these dogs is dead game... Still,i wouldnt do it,but thats his way.
Too much incest is bad,its that not linebreeding,but inbreeding. Its good to have a little bit of it,but not too much.
And right now,i wouldnt say he keep Silver bloodline anymore,because he dont have these dogs anymore,but now i would say he keep golden king bloodline,mix btw silver and hammonds and a little bit of eli.

 

forgot to say... golden king dogs dont look like typical pitbulls... Also,you noticed that almost all of these match dogs are defensive type dogs with similar appeareance and style in the ring.
this is silver:

and this is female that have 8x silver in pedigree but in in 4th-7th generation in pedigree:



you can see higher rear legs,same type of body,look... Strange thing to me is,we breed silver female of white color with black spots with gr ch kid (he was black dog) and pera told me that there will be not a single puppy of color like a mother,white with black spots. he said all will be one colored (with a little bit of white at chest and head maybe) with possibility of black and tan dogs.
there were 11 pups in that breeding,not a single one as mother. kid also breed another female of same color,pera again said the same,there were 8 puppies in that breeding and same thing. he breed 3 such females and it was always the same outcome. he knew...
you can check in pedigree base,females i am talking about are golden king lady, andrea's mashenka and I forgot the name of the 3rd.
Just now,its not a silver line anymore,including female i posted above. she just have 8x silver in her ped.

 

You agreed on what I said. You said linebred on Silver! That's what I'm saying, not Silver bloodline, linebred on Silver, that was my argument.

Culling is not killing.... Or I got the word wrong myself so excuse me!

I already said that I can't argue on traits of linebred dogs. I understand that a cross bred dog, can have dominant traits of one side of his pedigree. But always is a gamble...

Also, I know that mr.Pera's dogs all have the same style. A balkan dogman explained me his schooling method and all makes sense to me.

 

now I am not sure am I right about what I am saying,english is not my first language so maybe there is something lost in btw.
how do you get some bloodline? By linebreeding on some dog right? If these dogs are linebred on silver,arent they silver's bloodline? if you watch statistic,many of them have like 60% of silver's blood,while father is 50%.
what would you call somebody's bloodline,how that breeding should need to look?

 

It is very simple. I used the example of Frisco before but let's take the example of Mayday now.
Mayday is a Bolio/Tombstone-Redboy/Jocko dog. Without a doubt, breeders created a bloodline based on him, right?
If you pay attention to the bitches he was bred to, they were inside those families. He wasn't crossed. Some redboy bitches, some Yellow, some Bolio etc... In different combinations and analogies.
Silver was out crossed! The dogs you post are crosses with Silver. Linebred on Silver with all over the place crosses. You can call the bloodline Golden King's bloodline but not Silver! If he was bred inside his own family, then ok...

 

but if he was continued to be breed under his family,sorrels,then this dogs would be sorrels,not silver... right? i believe line is if breedings are LINEbreding on some dog. thats why its called line breeding. if you breed one dog with same family as this dog is,its line breeding on some of these family dogs,not himself...

 

If it was heavily bred on Silver like the peds you showed me, it would be Silver line. Sorrels yes, but based on Silver.
Silver is a Sorrels hound, so not bad to refer to his line as Sorrels but if the individuals are heavily bred on Silver with his own family as outs, I would call it Silver. He is a highly decorated individual himself, so it would be an honor to mark a pup as Silver bloodline and not just Sorrels. Unfortunattely, the peds are crossed with a heavy dose of Silver. Crossed, the key word...
It was always Golden King's line in the end...

 

By those standards,I dont think that any line of any dog in world exist at the momment,beside few frisco dogs maybe.
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=191457,0
garner sold this as frisco/chinaman bloodline. by ur standards it would be like that,because it have bullyson and some other blood too.
its impossible to breed only your line of dogs,that would be too much inbreding.
here is example:
http://members.tripod.com/~Marge_S_2/nonframes/inbreeding.htm

its wrotten that linebreeding past 5th generation doesnt have much effect. when you line breed,you are trying to copy genes of dog you used as base.
i will post this ped again as example:
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=230645,0
in right side,you have option called Analysis pedigree. click on it. silver genes are 62.5% what means it have more of silver genes then fathers,as father have 50% if not inbreed with daughter,then it would be 75%.

 

Yes, I would call Petov's Rhea a Frisco dog too. All the outs are Eli mainly and Carver.
Guess what, Frisco is 75% Eli/Carver with Bolio as an out, who is a Carver dog too (just in case someone doesn't know it, Carver is the breeder of Bolio)!
Study the pedigree, go deep and you see that all the dogs go back at the same families. All these with no heavy inbreeding...
Same as Mayday line of dogs!

 

Absolutely!

 

there is this dog in pedigree:
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=76804,0

also you talk about dogs in 7th,8th or even further in the pedigree which doesnt have any impact on the dog anymore.
in frisco you have snooty,you have bullyson,you have indian bolio,you have eli. what ever you breed in it its in family.

if you go far back to silver pedigree or any dog you will get on same dogs,because they all become from same dogs,but thats too deep in pedigree.
we can just agree to disagree.
ps: even this female that was silver breed into have a little bit of sorrels:
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=109404

 

Are you saying that Dolly is an out? Are you for real? Do you even know what Dolly did and what she threw? Have you even see her pedigree? Her only outs are Carver dogs. Even Jeep that is very deep, is 50% Eli/Carver through Honeybunch and Colby through Bo. Guess what. Even Eli has Colby somewhere deep in there...
Dolly is the classic old-school Eli bitch!
Anyway, it's pointless. We are doing circles right here. I said what I had to say and you did also. You refuse to get what I'm trying to say and insist on percentages on Silver so you can call a dog Silver bloodline, ignoring all the outcrosses...
Take care mate!

 

but you dont understand me,you talk about dogs which are 8 levels,even 10 levels in pedigree. this dogs doesnt mean anything. as i said,if you go deep in pedigree,you will get at tudor's and colby's dogs at all of them so basicly they r all from the same families.
silver is outcrossed with which dogs then? can you name them? because every single of them when you follow up the ped goes to indian bolio,carver dogs,bullyson etc. including sorrel's dogs at silver pedigree. so by your logic,they r all the same family. did you watched pedigree of those dogs that silver breed? watch it again,but go deeper...
take care mate,all the best

 

I disagree. Rhea is less Frisco than dogs you said weren't Silver. I don't know anyone that considers El Negro a Frisco dog...

All these dogs have Silver up front and in the back. Why aren't they Silver line of Golden King bred dogs?
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=98817,0
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=136198
https://pedigree.gamedogs.cz/details.php?id=230645,0

 

So basically Mup was beat by the better dog, Silver did the damage and rendered Mup unable to continue.