Clemmons Line

I myself dont really care as I'm happy with 95% of the dogs I've owned from the Eli family. However I do find it a interesting read and subject because just as much as I am fascinated by these bulldogs themselves ...I am just as much fascinated with the history of them. Its damn near a obsession for me lol. You can't change what's done...nor is it any of my business what they did. I do not condone it nor do I condone paper hanging. But I am glad it turned out the way it did or we wouldn't have the pleasure of owning most of the dogs we have today. Is a man taking credit for another mans line? Possibly ...we will never really know. I do believe both men we speak of are legends and have earned that title along with their dogs. Of course we would all like to know for one reason or the other. I have my reasons. Probably the same as most everyone else's reasons. But in a nutshell.. I'm proud of the Eli dogs I've owned and currently still running them. Great dogs and a pat on the back to whoever created this great line. Question though...if you had the winning lottery ticket...would you give everyone else the numbers to? Unfortunately the history of the breed is full of lying..stealing...paper hanging and so on. Its the nature of the beast. So a good dog is a good dog. Peds are just a half assed blueprint to sort of work with. I just enjoy feeding the ones I have and hope I can put out a 10th of the good dogs that Floyd B...Tudor...Carver..TG and all the rest of the legendary dogmen of the past and present time. But.. I choose to stay a honest man in my pursuit. Cheers!

 

I will tell you the true story as it is and I have witnesses that can tell you this is the truth. If this is not right, I'm the brother of Martin Luther King. Today at least 80% of the dogs that are fighting come from ELI. It makes me mad that they got the story on him and his sons BULLYSON and ELI JR., turned around. Not for myself, I know better. I lived it, but the future generation that is coming behind us doesn't know anything about the truth and have to rely on what they are reading. That's why I'm so glad I can do this interview in the TIMES. It takes a small man to lie and change a story. I'm telling the truth about how them dogs are bred just like I was told before. ELI was a pretty good individual and after his match against Jack Smith in Cleveland I bought him home. We doctored him up and then a sheriff from Mississippi tried to buy him, but I wouldn't sell him. Then the next day Raymond Holt of Texas and his wife Sharon came by to buy him, but I gave ELI to my friend Jr. Bush, from Alabama. He loaned ELI to John Cotton from Chattanooga, TN. They were friends at the time and that's where somebody stole ELI. I gave ELI to Jr. because he is a real high-class dogman, an example for a lot of other so called dogmen. When ELI got stolen, Cotton gave Jr. $1000 and told him to go and buy another dog, and said that if there was another dog he liked that cost more he would make up the difference. There is a lot of stories about what happened after this, when ELI got stolen from Chattanooga. I think he went from Chattanooga to Memphis and from there on, I just don't know for sure, but I feel that some of that bunch in Memphis had something to do with it. I just don't know what happened with ELI but I feel very strong about this, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it myself. I truly believe that ELI was also the sire of that GR. CH. ZEBO dog.

They were too much alike not to be true. At one time I gave a nice red puppy to Jerry Clemmons. He is a friend of mine and I still think a lot of the man. He took the pup, kept him for 6 weeks and sold the pup. He came here and I gave him another pup that I had here in the blacksmith shop. I called that pup SPOOK. She was out of a litter that killed each other when they were still very young. He kept her for about 2 months at the most when she came in season for the first time. He brought her back and I bred her to ELI. They had 4 pups, 3 black and 1 brindle. Two males and two females.

One of the black males was BULLYSON, the other was ELI JR. The brindle was BRENDY. She bit the hardest of them all and she was the biggest. She could break a dog down in less than 3 minutes. BRENDY was awesome, a bad Bulldog. As bad as a man has ever seen. She beat a dog one time like she was having breakfast. I've never seen anything like her again. The other female in the litter out of ELI and SPOOK was a black named LADY. She was my kind of dog and I think the best in the litter. Both BULLYSON and his brother ELI JR. were exceptional Bulldogs. They were the cream of the crop, top-notch Bulldogs and went into some tough competition to make history. BULLYSON was a good dog, but he was not as good as ELI JR. ELI JR. was a much better producer. He was just not bred to good selected pregnant doges, but he was definitely a better dog than BULLYSON. He didn't care if he was getting bit because he was going to bite you. Red Walling was the owner of BULLYSON when he was matched into his son BENNY BOB. Maurice conditioned him, but he was not fit to fight. This is what happened. Maurice had BULLYSON and bred him to a pregnant dog named BETH at his place. A few weeks after that BULLYSON got bit by a rattlesnake and his head was as big as a Texas hat. Also there was this big old dog at Maurice's place that got off the chain and BULLYSON who was in a kennel was fighting with this dog through the fence and messed up his teeth and gums. Just before the fight with BENNY BOB we checked his blood count and it was down to 33. BENNY BOB was a brindle dog and BULLYSON a black. The match was at 52lbs, but BULLYSON was only a 48 or 49 pound dog. The fight was reported in Pete Sparks' magazine and also in the book that Mayfield had out at the time, but it was not until Mayfield wrote that little book called 'Rednecks' that he came out with all that nonsense about a black dog against a white dog. I think he was confused by another match between Danny Burton, who had a black 54lb dog, and Raymond Holt, who had a white dog called LIGHTNING IV, owned by a black man named Chris. ELI JR. was sold to Douglas Nirider when he was 17 months old for $400. He won his match on a broken leg in Oklahoma. If BULLYSON would have been in shape against BENNY BOB I think that would have been a hell of a fight. One time I had a dog called NAPOLEON and I rolled him with BULLYSON when he was at my place. BULLYSON was an 18lb bigger dog, but NAPOLEON held his own for a little while. It didn't go very long because BULLYSON was coming on hard. Later I won with NAPOLEON in the same show when BULLYSON won over that SIR dog that was handled by Bert Clouse.

I remember one incident with BULLYSON when he was at my place. Jerry Clemons brought the dog to me to be tested and one day while I was cleaning up around his chain he tried to bite me. Before he could put his mouth on me I hit him hard with a shovel and knocked him out. After this happened he never, at my place, tried to bite anyone again. If a dog is a biting dog I don't like them and if they try to bite me or my family, it's a dead dog. Jerry had BULLYSON when he was a young dog and his dogs were always sort of hyper. It's easy to male them that way.

 

The Other Story of Eli, very contoversial.

This is the story of the Eli dog as it was told to me by Don Mayfield.

Let me begin at the beginning when I first started in the game. One of my first friends in the game was Floyd Boudreaux. Floyd and I got together right away, he had not won any matches and I showed up to my first match with gameness and conditioning and Floyd and I became close friends in the '60s and traveled the road together and spoke on the phone very often.

When I had the bitch Cry Baby in 1965, my wife and I got separated for a while and I took Cry full of pups over to Floyd's so he would care for her until she whelpped in 2 weeks. I got the Cry bitch from George Gillman and Curly Hayes. They had bought her from Evelyn Start after she had won a match with her and they went on to win one or two more with Cry after that before I dealed for her.

I called Floyd after the date she was due to whelp and he told me that all of her pups were born dead. But when I went to get Cry back after 7 or 8 weeks it was obvious that she had whelped her pups and had been nursing them till about a week or two before I went to pick her up at Floyd's. I looked real good but I never said anything about it to Floyd.

About 2 years later, Floyd showed up at pitside with the Eli dog. When Eli's match started, Curly Hayes came up to me and said, "Don, you told me that all of Crys pups had died", and I said "Curley, thats what Floyd told me but I got eyes and I can see". It was the fact that Eli looked more like a twin to his dam than he did her son that gave him away. Later, Leo Kinard came up to me and said "Don, where did Floyd get the BLACK dog? did Cry have her pups on Floyd's yard?"

A while after that some in the game like Leo Kinard and Junior Bush told some others that Floyd had told them that Eli was was out of Cry, and some years later Sonny Sykes told me that he had seen Cry at Floyd's with her pups nursing off her and Floyd had let him take his pic of the litter. There were 6 in that litter and 2 of them were matched that I know of and one of them was called Ellis' Pistol. Sonny told me that after Eli had won his first match Floyd came up to him and said that Eli was the pup he had picked out of the litter but had never come to get.

After that incident Floyd and I had our falling out and ended our friendship.

The hardest and gamest dogs I seen produced by Eli were when he was bred to bitches off the Corvino family by John Cotton and Junior Bush. All of them were game winners and I always believed that the dog Zebo was one of them when Eli was stolen from John Cotten's yard and taken to Indian Sonnys yard in California where he was bred.

According to this version of the breeding of Eli, his true ped would be:

....................Langham's Cotton .........Little Cotton ....................Dolan's Lady ...Eli ....................Tudor's Dibo .........Cry Baby ....................Tudor's Dinah

 

Eli was the product of the breeding efforts of Floyd Boudreaux. He was heavily bred on Floyds all time favorite dog Blind Billy. When Eli a 2xw was bred to Mr. Boudreaux' Spook, another Blind Billy breed dog, the outcome was to change the sporting community forever. Three famous names that come to mind from the Eli/Spook breeding are: Eli Jr., Bullyson, and a bitch named Brendy.

Boudreaux' Eli is without question one of the most famous of modern dogs from the 60's era. He and his sons Eli Jr. (sire of Gr. Ch. Art.-grandsire of Chinaman, Stompanato, Crenshaw's Ch. Rascal etc.) and Bullyson (sire of Ch. Honeybunch, Midnight Cowboy and Chivo, Loposay's Buster etc.) were used to create lines of their own and those in turn have spawned even more good lines of bulldogs. There is hardly a line of good dogs today that cannot trace its lineage back to the Eli dog. He was a product of inbreeding on Boudreaux' old Blind Billy dog (Dibo X Minnie) with some Trahan's Rascal (Dibo's half brother) blood thrown in, both good Tudor/Corvino bred dogs. I believe Mr. Boudreaux is still producing some fine dogs and I have talked to dog men who wouldn't have one from anyone else. Mr. Boudreaux has been breeding these dogs for over 35 years and has produced some of the best ever to look through a collar. The perfect southern gentleman and devoted family man, he is a real credit to the dog game and an excellent role model for the aspiring young dog man .

Eli Jr. was a fantastic 2xw himself and sire of one of the greatest dogs of all time, the 7xw Gr.Ch. Art. Art was unfortunately stolen and never recovered. Before Art was stolen the breedings made with him produced a high percentage of quality game dogs and enough to make Art an 'ROM' producer. Just to imagine what Art could have produced if he wouldn't have been taken is enough to boggle the mind. Art had a litter brother who was an exceptionally talented dog in his own right, the 3xw Ch. Hurt. Bullyson was a 2xw, 1xL and another fantastic producer. Bullyson's only loss was to one of his sons Benny Bob. Benny Bob subsequently lost to Jimmy Boots in a classic match. Bullyson's legend as a producer can be found in many dogs, but his most famous offspring has to be the 5xw Ch. Honeybunch, the all time leading 'ROM' bitch. Honeybunch subsequently produced the 4xw Ch. Jeep. Jeep now ranks as the number one 'ROM' dog to this day and literally deserves to be covered in a story alone.

Other famous Bullyson offspring are Loposay's Buster 'ROM', and the ever so famous Midnight Cowboy. Brendy when bred to her brother Eli Jr., produced P. Carver's Black Shine. Shine subsequently produced the legendary 8xw, 1xL Ch Rascal, Oso Negro a brother to Rascal, and the world famous P. Carver's Stomponato. Rascal when bred to Honeybunch produced the 3xw Polly, who in turn was bred to Jeep's father the 6xw, 1xL Ch. Bo 'ROM', thereby producing the great 7xw Gr.Ch. Outlaw. Another famous Eli bred dog was the 5xw Gr. Ch. Nigerino.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Boudreaux' Eli Reply with quote Eli was the product of the breeding efforts of Floyd Boudreaux. He was heavily bred on Floyds all time favorite dog Blind Billy. When Eli a 2xw was bred to Mr. Boudreaux' Spook, another Blind Billy breed dog, the outcome was to change the sporting community forever. Three famous names that come to mind from the Eli/Spook breeding are: Eli Jr., Bullyson, and a bitch named Brendy.

Boudreaux' Eli is without question one of the most famous of modern dogs from the 60's era. He and his sons Eli Jr. (sire of Gr. Ch. Art.-grandsire of Chinaman, Stompanato, Crenshaw's Ch. Rascal etc.) and Bullyson (sire of Ch. Honeybunch, Midnight Cowboy and Chivo, Loposay's Buster etc.) were used to create lines of their own and those in turn have spawned even more good lines of bulldogs. There is hardly a line of good dogs today that cannot trace its lineage back to the Eli dog. He was a product of inbreeding on Boudreaux' old Blind Billy dog (Dibo X Minnie) with some Trahan's Rascal (Dibo's half brother) blood thrown in, both good Tudor/Corvino bred dogs. I believe Mr. Boudreaux is still producing some fine dogs and I have talked to dog men who wouldn't have one from anyone else. Mr. Boudreaux has been breeding these dogs for over 35 years and has produced some of the best ever to look through a collar. The perfect southern gentleman and devoted family man, he is a real credit to the dog game and an excellent role model for the aspiring young dog man .

Eli Jr. was a fantastic 2xw himself and sire of one of the greatest dogs of all time, the 7xw Gr.Ch. Art. Art was unfortunately stolen and never recovered. Before Art was stolen the breedings made with him produced a high percentage of quality game dogs and enough to make Art an 'ROM' producer. Just to imagine what Art could have produced if he wouldn't have been taken is enough to boggle the mind. Art had a litter brother who was an exceptionally talented dog in his own right, the 3xw Ch. Hurt. Bullyson was a 2xw, 1xL and another fantastic producer. Bullyson's only loss was to one of his sons Benny Bob. Benny Bob subsequently lost to Jimmy Boots in a classic match. Bullyson's legend as a producer can be found in many dogs, but his most famous offspring has to be the 5xw Ch. Honeybunch, the all time leading 'ROM' bitch. Honeybunch subsequently produced the 4xw Ch. Jeep. Jeep now ranks as the number one 'ROM' dog to this day and literally deserves to be covered in a story alone.

Other famous Bullyson offspring are Loposay's Buster 'ROM', and the ever so famous Midnight Cowboy. Brendy when bred to her brother Eli Jr., produced P. Carver's Black Shine. Shine subsequently produced the legendary 8xw, 1xL Ch Rascal, Oso Negro a brother to Rascal, and the world famous P. Carver's Stomponato. Rascal when bred to Honeybunch produced the 3xw Polly, who in turn was bred to Jeep's father the 6xw, 1xL Ch. Bo 'ROM', thereby producing the great 7xw Gr.Ch. Outlaw. Another famous Eli bred dog was the 5xw Gr. Ch. Nigerino.

APRIL 28, 1968 Sixth Match: JACK SMITH VS. FLOYD BOUDREAUX Males at 38 pounds. Cajun Rules, Howard Teel, Referee Pete Sparks, Timekeeper Jack is using a red dog called Bozo said to have been bought by Sonny Sykes from Jerome Hernandez. Floyd is using a black which he calls Eli. The black gets the first hold as Bozo gets skin hold in throat. Black is getting into the throat of Bozo as Bozo works the ear trying for a shoulder.

$50 to $25 bets being made. Bozo the favorite. Black is showing good and working for Bozo's throat. $500 to $250 being offered. All the dog fighting in the previous match is being wrapped up in a ten-minute space of time in this fight. Black gets in Bozo's throat at 14, then Bozo throws one leg over the black's shoulder, gets an ear and throws the black dog. Bozo gets a shoulder and shakes and the black dog gets a mouth hold and gets him off.

Black up at 15 and into the throat. The black comes up and the bets shift to even money as both dogs are working the shoulders and front legs. Bozo gets the nose and shakes at 21. Changes to a hind leg, gets stifle and shakes. Bozo is working front leg. Back to mouth fighting at 25-minute mark. Bets getting hard to get at even money as first one then the other gets on top and gets nose and mouth. The black acts as though he has shot his wad. Bozo has opened up the black's front leg and the black is weakening. Story is that the black has heartworms. 38 and a pick up, Bozo to scratch. Made determined scratch, gets a front leg and the black goes into Bozo's neck. 40 a pick up, black scratches hard. Bozo gets nape of neck and the black goes down. At the 45 minute mark Kenneth Chandler says, if the little black dog don't win, his children will go hungry for a week. 54 a pick up, Bozo to scratch. Made determined scratch. 57 pick up with black to scratch. Trotted over and took hold, gets an ear and Bozo goes down. Bozo makes a good scratch at the one-hour mark. One minute later the black makes a good scratch and Smith gives up the fight. Black makes a good courtesy scratch. Eli is the winner in one hour and one minute.

NOVEMBER 9, 1969 JACK SMITH VS. JUNIOR Males at 37 1/2 pounds. Cajun Rules, Leo Kinard, Referee Jack is using a fawn and white Corvino dog. Junior is using a black dog named Eli. Eli, is the betting favorite from the start as he gets the Corvino dog in the throat with a skin hold. The Corvino dog gets an ear and holds on. Deuce is Jack's dog's name. Eli is Boudreaux breeding. Deuce held the ear for about 4 minutes. Eli got loose but Deuce got his ear again and throws Eli. Eli gets in the throat an Deuce tumbles in a summersault in an effort to free himself. Deuce gets Eli by the nose and gets him off, gets a leg. Eli tries but can't stay in hold. Boudreaux claims that Bozo broke his jaw.

Sonny Sykes bought Bozo from Hernandez. Bozo had previously beat Al Offer's "Tuffy" in December. Jack's dog is fanged. Handler frees him at 19. Dogs out of hold at 20, catching their breath. Eli gets the throat. Deuce is on his back with skin hold, and Eli is resting out of his hold at 23. Eli gets up and tries for the throat, but Deuce gets an ear and Eli goes down. Dogs out of hold catching their breath at 26.

After a flurry of excitement, the dogs are out of hold and Junior asks for an out of hold count. Jack asks the referee if he must consent and the referee tells him no, so Jack refuses to go along with the out of hold count. Eli gets up and gets a good hold on a front leg but lets go and stands, Deuce is flat, catching breath at 30. Then they are up and at it, and Eli is working a cheek hold. Deuce was fanged through the tounge, Jack frees him. Eli acts like he thinks he has done all he should be called on to do but goes back into foot and skin holds. At 35, the dogs are out of hold, catching their breath.

Eli turns, a pick up is made, Eli scratches hard and went for the throat and Deuce goes down. 37, a handle was made, Deuce to scratch. Deuced is counted out and the black dog makes a good courtesy scratch. Eli declared winner in 38 minutes.

The thing that make the Eli dogs so popular is that they are powerfully built dogs with devastating mouths who consistently throw these traits into their offspring.

 

on the moment don start to found out about floyds black dogs .
floyd start to tel ..to beginners around him.........don is becoming crazy .
in that time it went slower to found out ..because no internet lol....
one of those beginners from that moment have said on this board ..
we where al laughuning ..and don was on his own with his eli story .....

 

Some people believe Don's version, some people believe Floyd's. I think preme made a very valid point, and neither HIM NOR I are condoning the stealing of dogs or the taking credit for another mans work, but where are the top producing dm dogs? Where are the great dm dogs? No disrespect to the late dm or his family, but somehow every great dog seemed to turn into a dm dog that someone stole or changed the papers on. Peolpe start to feel like if that is/was the case then why couldnt dm, or anyone with his stock produce anything like what came from floyd, if they had like/similar dogs? Honestly where is A LEGITIMATE ROM, or great winning dog from dm stock? I don't wanna hear about the purest of the purest family bs, I would like to see a legit dog that can be compared to something Floyd put out, or came down from the Eli stock once Floyd started breeding those dogs.

 

Does Pit General count?

 

Well i would answer that question like this, if eli is bred like don says ,and floyds dogs came form that blood and not what shows on his peds , then that would make those dogs more down to dons breeding of cotton and crybaby than floyds, and if we add maverick into the equation as a dog bred of dons dogs from norman kemmer ,and how important maverick has been to floyds reputation as a breeder , then as far as ? were are the dm dogs today , well just look at floyds dogs from that era and the subsequent ones bred down from eli and mavercik.Also if you ask around in the usa from texas to california to dogmen of a certain age who dealt with don you will find more than a few who built their yard on dogs bred from his yard , and if we also believe that indian sonnys dogs that went on to produce the midnight blood as being pit general bred , then i think you could look at some of the most famous dogs and yards across america and the world who whether they know it or not have a big injection of dons breeding runing through their viens , and i would ask where are the champions and gr chs and rom that dont have dons breeding in them , cos although their are manythat dont , there are also many who do have it but dont know it cos they have been told otherwise by the men that sold them their dogs.What i hope is thatb one day floyd /sonny and others who have not given credit to their program to the men who deserve to be known, because don always gave lots of credit to earl tudor ,and i for one would think more highly of floyd as a man and sonny if they admitted what we all know as true , cos everyone deserves a chance even don mayfield who everyone believed was crazy cos of waht some of these same men said about him , trying to cover their tracks , but looks like the truth has a way of coming out in the end and maybe the crazy old man will get the respect for those dogs that he deserves , at least from his own countrymen in the usa .

 

Okay, but why didn't any of these dogs come from Mayfield himself, or those that were getting dogs directly from him? All I was saying is that if someone stole a dog from me, or bred to one of my dogs and kept all the pups, why couldn't I produce or create dogs as good as the ones that were stolen from me? While most of us believe pit general produced midnight, or was very close in his ped, NOBODY (to my knowledge) HAS EVER STEPPED UP/OUT AND STATED THAT. Mayfield had plenty of dogs, and yes he had/produced some good ones, nothing of the likes of the Eli dog and that family ever came from dm's yard/blood.

 

no like you said tudor bred them dogs so tudor should get the credit .. dm was holding another man's work ....

 

Its floyds breeding program after the cry baby throery. Maverick shit Floyd produce great dogs with out the maverick stuff also ... Where did the dm stuff go

 

" By the way this is more about earl tudor as don didnt bred crybaby or cotton , and its more about the truth"



Don bred them two together and Floyd build a family around them ......thanks don !!!!!!
So after that eat happen to don as a breeder ??? Where are all them winners of his family strain ???? Great pitman but breeder that's another story ..

 

Don M was a a breeder also..If you dont want to give the man credit thats fine..He was one of if not the first to cross Fitzwater Goldie Blood to the Dibo blood..And Floyd did breed some outstanding animals from the eli blood..Both these men did alot towards the history of the APBT.

 

Don is a legend I respect that don't get it twisted on bit ...... But we are only men we all have flaws and I don't put anyone but the lord on a pedestal .....

 

Yes preme and mayfield always gave earl credit ,and was the only dogman of his generation who had the brians to visit with earl and listen and learn as much as he could , and thanks to don we have audios of his conversations with earl to listen to and learn from also.

 

Crazy or not , DM, was a dogman thru and thru, as is FB.
FB has produced a fam that is still doing it. Eli has many different strains still doing it consistantly where it matters. Now like was stated if these families are based on a breeding or a dog thats from Mayfield, the way they were bred going forward had no input from Mayfield. And where is the Mayfield lines still as relevant or consistant?

 

Exactly !!!

 

The thing is FB bred the dogs he had according to his ''truth'' (a word DM liked) and DM bred what was on his yard according to his truth. Many who bred their Eli dogs the way they believed and some established powerful strains of the Eli dogs. Hank was a dog from DM and produced Jocko, does this make Yellow's off dogs from Mayfield or with a big Mayfield influence, I think not. As Vern Jackson bred to Hank against DM's wishes and without any help from DM. Thus Jocko may have been off a dog from DM but wouldnt have existed if DM had influence over V Jackson @ the time and DM cant get the credit for the resulting dogs that Jackson and Bass used to get to Miss Jocko.
As a breeder u should be credited with the pup or dog u bred that leaves ur yard, but can u claim the credit for the success of that dog regarding what it produced, if u have no input as to how its bred going forward? Can FB then claim credit for the Cardenas' Shorty offspring? Or should that also go to DM as well? Or should Arnoldo Cardenas be given credit for the way he utilised and managed Shorty's stud career?

 

Well, that's all folk's!!!

 

on this moment we are shorting out a ped ..that was made up fake .
by a european dog man ........he also bred with that fake ped ........
that dog man is on his end of the carriere ..thats why he probaly did it .
i think he wil go in history as a ped faker lol what else ....
what you are seadening wilbe your harvest