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excitement and redirected aggression

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by act284, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    Hey everyone, I'm looking for any answers or advice regarding excitement and redirected aggression.

    There is a handler aggression situation between my buddy and his dog. I would like to help him out, but I am not familiar with the Personal Protection line of work. In my opinion, his dog should be put 6 feet under. I've witnessed both times when the dog attacked.

    Anyways, a few months back when the dog was only 6-7 months old, there was a handler aggression incident. My buddy had recently put together a 25 foot training lead onto a harness. We took his pup to a field, and the pup began running furiously and in circles along with his other small dog. I noticed the dog becoming excited as he was vocalizing it, and he soon came charging toward the handler. At first it was a jump onto the body, then became a nip, and soon a snap. My buddy kept pushing his dog off of him, but it only elevated the excitement. He grabbed his dog, avoiding bites as best as he could. The pup began screaming like a 5 yr old child being abused, eyes were bloodshot. He was finally able to escort the dog off and into the car.

    Just last night, we were BBQ'ing at my buddy's house. His dog, now 1 yr old, was running freely in his backyard with the small dog and taking a look at us the guest through the fenced gate door. The dog began barking, growling and jumping on the fenced door. He went back there to shut the dog up. He turned his back, and continued talking to us through the fence. I noticed the dog ran back and forth to the door and then further back into the yard. A minute or so later, I noticed the dog jumping on my buddys back, and nipping under his arm pits. He walks further back to escort the dog, but the nipping continues and he grabs onto the collar to gain control. The dog once again has bloodshot eyes according to him, and I could hear screaming and choking noise the dog was making.

    What would you classify these incidents as? Is this dog suitable to be alive? How can we fix the situation?

    The puppy is bred by a personal protection trainer, but he is often very busy and hasn't had time to assess the situation. I've been told the dog is shy around humans and other dogs. When younger, the dog was agitated to bring out the defense and fight drive. After that, the dog seems to hate any human beyond my buddy, his lady, their shih tzu dog. But the dog has had 2 incidents of attacking my buddy.

    Sorry for the long message, any help would be much appreciated.

    =^^=GYPSYKITTIN Big Dog

    Curious what breed you are speaking of, personaly the situation is already out of control and I wouldn't recommended trying to further any training with that dog. It seems to me he's already past the point of redirection. But I train personal protection dogs differently than most do anyway. If the breeder doesn't have time to try to help with a very dangerous situation than he needs to find a better breeder and trainer and send that dog back in a cremation bag. JMHO.
  3. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    I agree...

    it is a apbt dog...but the line has been bred to excel in personal protection...and i dont mean schz or french ring....

    the breeder lives about 1.5 hrs away...and he trains all the time but does not have time to do 1 on 1 training unless my buddy can make it to him where he lives

    he says these are the only 2 incidents...and it seems like he states the dog jsut loses control...because the dog is super vocal, and his eyes are bloodshot...
  4. magdalena

    magdalena Big Dog

    Starting a pup under 18 months in fight and defense is irresponsible and you are seeing why.
  5. ShakaZ

    ShakaZ CH Dog

    Specially one that you don't have to do much to rile up anyway.
  6. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    I agree... alot of gsd trainers I know think this is bad and dangerous...they always talk about prey drive first...

    any hope for this dog?

    ATEXAN Big Dog

    The shakedown method or a boot up his ass, real simple.
  8. Blau

    Blau Big Dog

    May I ask the line that the dog is from?
    It may just be my ignorance but I'm surprised that people would breed APBT's for personal protection...
  9. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    bloodline? the dog comes from lonzo/sorrels supposedly...idk exactly
  10. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    sounds like the dog is to young and immature to be doing this type of training. you have to have a foundation set with the pup before you build a house. The pup obviously doesnt know its role nor does it have OB skills or respect for his owner
  11. junkyard

    junkyard CH Dog

    the dog doesnt have the tools developed in his head to be used for this kind of work.
    hate the idea of an apbt used for this anyway. put main point being it just isnt mature enough.

    depending on the intensity [which you would know more than us] id say your friend has shown you the best way to ruin what potentialy could have been a good dog.
  12. Robber

    Robber Big Dog

    Enough said...:mad:

    =^^=GYPSYKITTIN Big Dog

    From the dogs behaviour it sounds to me like he wasnt agitated but downright terrified into defending himself out of fear. I have come accross trainer mistakes over the years and when a shy dog doesnt respond to the usual pinch play and noisey aggressive acting agitater, the bad trainer will resort to inducing the the dog into a terrified state in order to essentially make the dog into a dangerously aggressive fear biter.This the "I'm gonna get You before You have a chance to get Me!!!" mentality which is extremely dangerous!!!!!!
    From Your descriptions it sounds as if the dog is scared shitless and when he cant get at what he is afraid of is attacking his own master out of sheer panic.
    This the making of a 6 o'clock news headline!!!! GET THAT DOG AND HIS OWNER TO A BETTER TRAINER NOW!!!! BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!!
  14. vorios02

    vorios02 Pup

    the only one who is innocent is the dog.Bad training methods cause this attitude.he must go to experience trainer before is too late.
  15. MinorThreat

    MinorThreat CH Dog

    the first mistake and a lot of other make it here is using the fkn breed for protection work, this is what is supposed to be culled out of the gene pool and people are taking these dogs and doing human bite work with them, its ridiculous
  16. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    I have no experience in working dogs on humans...so all of this seems obvious, but I had to ask.

    I think the dog is good as dead...who knows what else it bites if the owner can ever be the victim without causing his dog to act this way

    So you're saying the dog wanted to attack us, the strangers, but since he couldn't, he went after his owner in a panic state?
  17. although I have NO experience with training any dogs for this kind of work I must agree with this statement 10000%...............jmo
  18. Nico326

    Nico326 Pup

    What everybody else said. The dog needs serious obedience and socialization work, it may already be too screwed up to be 100% sound even then.

    Who exactly did the agitation "work" and what methods were used? I use the term really loosely because anyone who has a bit of experience training working dogs won't do anything with fight drive until the dogs are much older, reliable in OB and experienced.

    From what I understand, real fight drive doesn't usually develop in dogs until after 2 years. If the dog already has this amount of lack of respect at one year the dude is in deep shit once he matures. Maybe he should stick to shih-tzus...
  19. ATEXAN

    ATEXAN Big Dog


    I must of hastily skipped over the part about this dog being a APBT. Why the fuck would people want to use them as PP dogs. I know that some people on here support this idea, but really in reality it is the most ignorant thing being done with these dogs even more than the BYB Bully owners. I guarantee these folks IQ is under 89!!! Loosers!
  20. act284

    act284 Big Dog

    I agree...the apbt is the most well rounded dog, but there are more than just a few more suitable for PP work...I used to think it was interesting early on, but then i saw the major drawbacks

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