flame tree kennels

Heck was not a cur. He was written off as cold (or a cur) because he took a long time to start. Thankfully, his last owner was patient enough to wait on him.
Heck was worth the wait as he was neither a cold dog, nor was he a cur.

Red Beulah behind the Hoss dog was a cur.

 

Once again a 20+ year OFRN breeder sold Heck as a GROWN TESTED dog to R.M. and R.M. wanted to know exactly what he had. FTJ's Coco Moe who couldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight showed that Heck wasn't a started dog. R.M. felt he was bamboozled and ran a muck taking Vega's word on the dog and those were his exact words told to me when he called me in '07!

Now as far as Heck's performance and production record well that speaks for itself.

Beulah quit in short order in a match and was traded to B. Pritt's for two pups from the Panarama/Annabell litter.

 

Yeah, pit bulls come in all type of styles and now bloodlines. Any bloodline should have history of activity, like 'Lightner's Vick', 'Hemphill's Dot', 'Wallace's Red Brave' Colby's Tige', 'Anderson's Red Raven', 'Ferguson's Centipede'. There are fighting pit bulls that began in the late 1800's and since, now we have a montage of variety in selection, all wearing the pit bull title. There was a time when a certain line represented the person who owned the brood bitch or stud dog. That has changed. People today claim to have certain bloodlines because they have been told that. In most cases, the breeding pair is the only proof of offspring. 2 generations at most. The rest you have to believe in faith.
Robert Hemphill owned Hemphill dogs, not all were red. Not all were qualified. Anything after that is wishful thinking.
Today I am breeding privately and just a very very few. This year I am letting my personal stock out to a few folks over dinner and conversation. You have to be at least 30 years old and a animal lover. I can stand on nearly 10 generations that I have had my hands on or fed and raised. I have breeding history on all my dogs. They are good working dogs of choice. Healthy and smart. Reds, Fawns and Buckskins. All from my yard, no claims of dead men bloodlines ... dead people cannot breed dogs.

 

Thats an interesting story. Were you there? The Moe dog never had a chance to go any further than a scratch. R.M. said no,no when Heck never moved even after contact. Some there wanted to bring out another dog for Moe but it didn't happen. FTJ was drunk and packed up his dog and left. Those, there were very upset and now on a long hate campaign against FTJ and any dogs in his yard. It's about more than dogs, the human element sucks ... figtreejohn

 

When Moe was released the first thing he did was cur snap inches from Heck's grill. When Moe finally did decide to do something he barely broke the skin of Heck. Like I said in my earlier post Moe couldn't bust a grape on an unstarted dog in Heck. FTJ we both know you don't have high caliber stock and no you don't know the breeding on several dogs you own because you bred dogs you didn't know the breedings of!

 

Thanks for the heads up on these hounds. Very interesting indeed.

 

So did Heck eventually get started? I heard he was game and willing, but not match quality...

 

Heck proved to be game eventually but wasn't worth a two dead flys smashed worth bet as a match dogs. Heck was no more no less than the dogs behind him and produced just that!

 

I see you are as ignorant as you prove to be. How is your wieght control?

 

LOL ... I don't know what to say ... like to see you face to face to discuss this item ... you sound like a real goof ball ...

 

Heck was trained to act like a forward dog ... he was born a pet ... his bloodline were yard pets ... I forgot your name ... but you don't even own dogs do you?

 

By the way ... if your eyes go as far as the monitor in your face ... your ears only what you heard ... your mouth used as a repeater ... that means you have no thinking ability ... your back side is getting more work than your own actual experience!

 

Thanks for that info,

Is that directed towards me? I can only go on what I heard about Heck because I wasn't there to ever see the dog myself. But FTJ, seeing how you're in Southern CA and probably only a short ways away from me, maybe we can arrange for me to come by sometime and get some hands on experience from you? I can show you my dog down from Heck and maybe you can show me some of what you keep? PM me.

 

Hey gaytree,
Bad Frank is getting out soon and wants back into your pockets.
I guess you forgot how he waded through those yardshitters of yours! lmao!

 

Know you wouldn't LOL
He is 6'9" 275lb and played sports all his life.

 

Come on John keep it real, I still can't believe you are from Compton...now I know why you left.

Heck was an unstarted dog and when released never had any intentions to do anything but stand. Moe was released and stopped inches from Heck, growled and cur snapped before taking a skin hold on Heck. Heck didn't turn and it was your Moe dog that released his skin hold and your Moe wouldn't scratch back.

I was reading your posts and couldn't help but laugh my ass off as you pretend to have 10 generations you've bred...WOW! John you must have forgot about this dog you got from Lano

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=279600

I do have pics of Fred taken on your yard....UNTOUCHED...as an adult!

John how about this female you claim to have 10 generations off of?

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=133217

Oh how about this female you didn't breed, Lano sold you the gyp as a pup and you and Mike P. bred an untouched Shooter to an untouched Bess!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=173104

Here is another 10 generation breeding from you John...LOL!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=279604

Hey John you can stop frontin' any minute now!

 

Flametree admittedly does not test or prove his dogs; however, he fills his website with all sorts of game-dog buzzwords and old articles to suggest that his dogs represent the strain of old. Beginners don't know the difference. He is also incorrect on several aspects of history and breeding but when asked to back up his theories, simply says that he posted what he heard. All Hogwash. Within this string, there is mention of the Heck dog being a cur. Heck was not a cur but did take a long time to turn on. A cur is a dog that quit. Heck never quit but he was not an accomplished pit dog. When rolled into Moe, Heck did not start.

 

Mallard you are quick to point out what Flametree says on his website or what Flametree says on boards when he represents 99% of OFRN breeders. I see you were also quick to downgrade FigTree when you bred "knowingly" untouched with FigTree....Shooter(1xL) to Bess!

I also like how you refer Rose's ped to Scarlet's when Scarlet was bred within the family produced more accomplished dogs than you and your mentor has ever owned! That breeding between Shooter and Bess didn't produce winners like you say on the ped when you emailed me asking if there were winners from that breeding...I still have the email Mike!

I don't need to post that email....or do I? Mike you bought dogs from somebody who is no different from Flametree...MIKE MORGAN... who usues the same BULLSHIT on his website as Flametree...25+ years and you and noboby can find a winner from his program but it's easier to find QUITTERS from his program like Lonnie and Baby!

Mike your crownies who own those yardshiters from Shooter were pm'ed and they have yet to get back with REAL DOGMEN....I'll be more than happy to postthe pms from peds online!

 

Julius, see my reposnses.

Mallard you are quick to point out what Flametree says on his website or what Flametree says on boards when he represents 99% of OFRN breeders. I see you were also quick to downgrade FigTree when you bred "knowingly" untouched with FigTree....Shooter (1xGL) to Bess!
**The issue about Flametree was that he was touting his dogs as game-bred and also telling lies about Bob Hemphill’s breeding program, in order to sell more pups to beginners who wouldn’t know the difference. If he admitted he was a pet or hobby breeder and didn’t advertise he dogs as game dogs, I don’t think anyone would have cared. There is no downgrading of Figtree as he was never upgraded. I simply recalled the story between Heck and Moe, as told to me by one of the principles, just as others did in this thread. I did have first-hand knowledge of Heck after the fact.

I also like how you refer Rose's ped to Scarlet's when Scarlet was bred within the family produced more accomplished dogs than you and your mentor has ever owned!
**That is true! Rose was a man biting cur and the sister to your Scarlet bitch. Hell, they don’t all make the grade. If an accomplished dog is a dog with a winning fight record and fighting titles; then yes, you have produced much more accomplished fighting dogs than me and my mentor ever owned. I am not a dog fighter. Congratulations though and keep up the good work!

That breeding between Shooter and Bess didn't produce winners like you say on the ped when you emailed me asking if there were winners from that breeding...I still have the email Mike!
**Yah, I did ask you if you were able to confirm anything at that time because at that moment, we were both trying to find out what the story was. I was able to confirm two wins but I guess because I didn’t share my findings with you after the fact, you believe that it didn’t happen. That’s OK!

I don't need to post that email....or do I?
**That e-mail was a snapshot in time of that moment. I continued searching independent of you and found two confirmed wins. 2 out of 10 dogs. If you wish to publish the e-mail concerning that point in my search, hell... knock yourself out!

Mike you bought dogs from somebody who is no different from Flametree...MIKE MORGAN...
**Mike gave me the dog.

who usues the same BULLSHIT on his website as Flametree...
25+ years and you and noboby can find a winner from his program but it's easier to find QUITTERS from his program like Lonnie and Baby!
**I know you see Mike as a sales competitor and are using this instance as an opportunity to bash him.
I think Morgan is a pretty good guy.

Mike your crownies who own those yardshiters from Shooter were pm'ed and they have yet to get back with REAL DOGMEN....I'll be more than happy to post the pms from peds online!
**Again, post what you wish. If you wish to further incriminate yourself (and others too) about dog fighting, knock yourself out.

 

They're gonna close the thread on yall.