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Garners “Tramp Redboy” pups

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Bangman, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    We don't call these dogs wolf's because the genetic makeup is about 3% variation. They all have common ancestors in the pedigree. You could say there all from the same dogs to a certain degree. However genetics ain't pulling from the back.
    patjr, magnoilaotis and Holocaust like this.
  2. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Agreed, BUT you cant in on post say 3 gens and before is where traits, and all importance is oulled from then claim 50-100 years ago weigh to support you "kick"...
  3. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Weigh today*
  4. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    To clarify you can't in one post say 1-3 gens is what all traits and attributes are pulled from then give all the credit for what exists today from 50-100+ years ago....

    The history us the history but if you run the tightest Jeep dogs TODAY you cant say "oh only look to the first three gens for what you have" then say all your dogs are jeep clones bacause theyre pedigree bred "yay i have jeep dogs" dogs while claiming Jeeps accomplishments verify your untested stock(40 years later)....

    Hopefully that makes sense while staying neutral
    corvettedex likes this.
  5. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    I'm not going to debate how many folks hung paperwork. It doesn't matter today. Good Dogs are where you find them. This is certain 95% of those good one have Colby in them. ...
    Sleep likes this.
  6. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Let's get back to them Redboy hounds.
    FrankDublin likes this.
  7. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Well said, Those traits were passed down by proper breeding, culling , ect.
  8. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    BB, I dont understand why folks get offended who are heavily invested in Carver bred Bulldog's.. He was " The Old Master" Silver Fox and a Sports man. He hung paperwork. I'm not here to save the Colby name. It will always be in the history if our breed. It cant be denied that Maurice Carver himself made up the old famous saying, $A Bulldog just isn't a Real Bulldog' unless it's got some Colby in it". That goes along with all the other Forfathers who bred and passed down this pure bred Apbts . What difference does it make today? Respect the Oldtimers who passed down these Bulldogs to us. You name the any old Dogmen who are from America, Mexico ect, they got Bulldog's bred by or through J.P. Colby. Are folks so naive that they think that Corvino didnt do breedings with J.P? LOL Its or History. Dont hate the players who started peddling Bulldog's 130 plus years ago. Only ignorance follows those folks
  9. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    I can guarantee nobody's offended here. It's rather simple with understanding of how genetic works as well as breeding. Whoever is breeding the dogs then those are their dogs. If I have Colby dogs and breed them from that point on they become my dogs F2,F3 etc after a few generations there's hardly any genetic similarity to the dogs in back. So just because I started with Colby dogs from JP don't mean the finished product resembles what is on his grandkids yard. They have changed over time even though they have common ancestors genetically.
    Holocaust, patjr, corvettedex and 2 others like this.
  10. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed. It is all about selection going forward not selection from the past. Like Ben said above, if I buy four dogs from him and breed the two pair I get one thing. Based on his experience with his dogs he may have bred the same dogs but opposite pairings.

    Odds are we get somewhat similar results but some differences maybe subtle differences. But when I breed the second time more than likely there will be complete separation from "his dogs" to what is now my "dogs".

    Things constantly change from the first breeding and from there can go a thousand different directions, even tho the paperwork says Ben from the third to the 8th.

    In my opinion my Hatchet dog is a Red Boy dog. His pedigree will suggest half at best. But over the years I selected dogs that reminded me of what I saw right off Red Boy as a young kid. In my head he is a Red Boy dog. On paper he is not even considered a heavy Red Boy dog and if someone were looking to breed to a Red Boy dog he could not even get a second look.

    It just works that way.

    I have changed my mind a few times over the years on how Red Boy was really bred and his true origin and if someone could come up with something that makes even more sens than the Krebbs version it might change my mind all over again. And even then, it means absolutely nothing in any decision I make today in 2020.

  11. Sleep

    Sleep Big Dog

    Slim you totally cleaned it up for me thanks
  12. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Yes Sir, Slim at no joke, AGK, Holocaust, & BB isnt either. Sleep these older guys no there stuff. I need some '"Good Orderly Direction " on why Iron Mike told me to go get Redboy off of Cat with a Snooty out, not heavy inbred on the Snooty. Help me understand the ,(Why of it) ??
  13. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    I understand. Slim, BB , So help me out with what I was told to get off of Redboy ,/Cat, with a Snooty out, yet not to heavy inbred on the Snooty. Iron Mike has put on a mission! Lol
    david63 likes this.
  14. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    I really like IM always enjoyed talking with him. Odds are because http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=727 this stuff really clicks with his yard.
    corvettedex and david63 like this.
  15. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

  16. tomjones2

    tomjones2 Big Dog

    Great thread folks, thoroughly enjoying the depth of knowledge, history and experience
    corvettedex likes this.
  17. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    That makes a lot of common sense. We were discussing myself going directly to C.M. He advised me that Carl would have the p.s. I need to go after this Redboy/through CaT, with a shot of Snooty to get the best He knew of close to home.. Many years ago I..M. told me if I go get a pair of Bulldog's that were available Repogirl & her belly mate brother. Based on life changing events , my wife and I had to relocate. So I placed the Bulldog's. Now we are regrouping. I want to go a little different direction.
  18. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    Personally I'm not a fan of Rbj dogs myself. If I were to get something along that line it would be off Tampa or patchanga from cml. Bloodline aside only talking bulldog look into brk casino who just beat vinny R casino/ lil Madison breeding going to be fire.
    corvettedex likes this.
  19. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I will go with the Carver quote as far as the Colby dogs. Most people felt really comfortable with the breeding on Cleo. Regardless of reasoning or opinion the Red Boy pedigree has been in question just about from day #1. So if all the good dogs need a little Colby and back then Red Boy was considered an unknown, maybe doubling down on a Cleo daughter back to Red Boy provided a more predictable base. Then a pinch of Snooty to blend the two. If I were in the dogs back then, knowing what I THINK I KNOW now that would be my reasoning.

    Some even felt this would be doubling down on Bullet with the Corvino/Colby out.

    Feeling comfortable with the female and then doubling down probably made things a little more predictable with Red Boy being like a wild card. It took a couple three Red Boy generation to make it a stand alone family and then that faded really fast as for whatever reason it was a cure all for anything that ailed bulldogs. It was bred by so many in so many different directions that in time it would not stand alone. For most it ended up being a 1/2 or a 1/4 and considered an out.

    But so it goes.

    corvettedex likes this.
  20. magnoilaotis

    magnoilaotis Top Dog

    He said Redboy/Cat probably because it produced performers and producers. The Redboy/Cat combo is behind Yellow John, Cottingham dogs, Triple Ott. Just google dogs like Red Feather, Red Eagle, Rattler and follow the dogs they produced. Then go one step farther and look at the dogs those dogs produced. You will then see all Redboy hasn't been the same for a while, just like Slim says. I have no clue about the Snooty part.
    corvettedex likes this.

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