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Kangal dogs

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by King dogs, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Ogeday38

    Ogeday38 Pup

    I’ve been reading this forum for years now without registering, from the 2000’s. But stumbling across this topic regarding one of my favorite breeds other than the APBT, I felt like I had to react to all of the speculations, misinformation and nonsense comparisons. Over the years, I’ve seen my fair share of dogs. Have known serious dogman in Turkey who are both into gamebred APBTs and Turkish shepherds.


    Let’s be very clear on one thing: the Kangal is NOT bred to fight. The Kangal is NOT a fighting dog. It’s an ancient breed, one of the best at what they do. Majestic, fearless dogs and it’s a privilege to see one in working conditions. Absolutely amazing. So fearless that they’d charge head against a bear.


    However, of the past decades, their popularity has risen so much due to the fact that the internet brings us so much closer to one another. It’s so much easier to access information that a few decades ago we wouldn’t know. This popularity however damaged the breed itself.


    Giving a percentage is difficult, but most dogs you’ll come across on youtube and the internet are mislabeled as Kangals, due to the popularity of the name. A Kangal is a very distinct breed, but people tend to think that every large dog in Turkey with a black muzzle is Kangal. It’d be just as wrong as thinking that the Dogo Argentino would be a large, white APBT. Purebred, working Kangals will rarely exceed the 150-160 pound mark. Have you ever seen a Kangal under working conditions? Those dogs can reach speeds of more than 30 mph and could chase a wolf for hours. How could any 200 pound dog possibly do that?


    These dogs are not bred to fight, but there is a clear difference between guard dogs and Kangals (and alike). These dogs have been culled on fighting abilities, on strength, on courage. Think about it, these dogs are bred to protect the sole thing that brings a poor shepherd food on the table. They trust these dogs with their lives. It’s nothing more than normal that they have been selected partially on their fighting abilities. But that’s just an aspect of it, unlike the APBT who’s sole purpose was to fight.


    However, there are lines of Turkish shepherds (on the internet mislabeled as Kangals) that are bred for the sole purpose of fighting. These dogs will often be a mix of the several Turkish breeds, such as the Kangal, but are selected on ability rather than pureness of the breed. Very often, these dogs will carry Malakli blood, a breed from Turkey that is often mislabeled as a Kangal but unlike the Kangal is bred to fight. Those dogs would give any given breed a run for it’s money on any given day.


    I wish people people would use their common sense and stop comparing those dogs to APBT’s. There is no honor in it, for both sides. Not a single serious dogman who’s into those dogs will ever consider fighting their dogs against an APBT. Why would they? What honor is there to be gained? Practically none of the video’s that you’ll with mixed fights is exemplary to both breeds. There is not single serious dogman in Turkey, of both sides, who’d consider it. So I wish others would stop these comparisons. Not a single serious dogman into APBT’s would risk their dog against a much more powerful, larger dog that could potentially kill it quickly. Not a single “Kangal” breeder in Turkey who’d consider it, and there is no point to prove in that. It’s just called having common sense.
     
  2. Ogeday38

    Ogeday38 Pup

    A prime example of what I described above about the lines were bred to fight was a Ch named Cowboy. As you can see in the video below where he is matched against a CAO, that it’s a totally different example than what you’re usually used to see. Keep in mind that despite its appearance, that dog is not a pure Kangal.

    and yes, it scratched.
    https://m.vk.com/video226504305_168943644
     
  3. Arya

    Arya Pup

    I just joined this forum after seeing your reply-Id love your advice on my dog. I got two "Turkish Boz" dogs as a gift from a friend as livestock guardian dogs. They ended up embark testing as 1/3 Armenian Gampr and 2/3 anatolian, but have the big heavy Turkish Malik type built. To go with them I bought a Turkish Boz female and have seen serious dog aggression with her. Can you tell me if my description of her below sounds like the fighting dogs you describe above?

    The females is about 100 pounds, black and tan colored and is 22 months. She has cost me almost $3K in vet bills from only four fights with my other dogs. She LOVES people, all people strangers and family alike. She attacks male and female dogs, but likes younger puppies.

    When she attacks, she sees the dog at a distance, eyes them hard, takes a few strides stalking them, then runs at them full speed. No growling, no warning, no gestures, nothing. She hits them in the shoulder and knocks them to the ground and bites HARD. She will start by grabbing them in the chest and arm on the dogs left side, typically tearing gashes and deep punctures, then release and grab the dogs from the top of the neck, with a very deep bite and crush over the back of the neck as well as shake. The dog she got this far on had nerve and muscle damage and developed a large seratoma and larynx nerve damage. She plays with puppies in a soft mouthed way, so does have good bite inhibition...when she wants to?

    The first two fights a few months back, she let go and left the dog with gashes. The next two more recent fights I pulled her off each time. She will not back down off the dog, even though they are crying, whining and trying to escape and showing tons of submissive signs. She just keeps going back at them. In the third fight I pulled her off three times and twice she pulled free and got at the dog again even after he ran and hid from her. She broke a three hundred pound tie out line getting back at that dog. Last night the back door was open and she took off and I had to pull her off my very submissive great pyranees. I had her by the collar and she was fully braced stiff, growling and snarling at that poor dog trying to lunge at her, while the dog cowered in fear.

    My understanding (only learned recently) is that some of the Boz lines are literally turkish fighting dogs but in the US they are marketing them as LGDs.

    I do love the dog a lot and she is a lovely indoor pet dog at the moment, ha.

    Does she sound like a turkish fighting type dog? What do they call these dogs in Turkey-just Turkish Shepards? What breeds are they combining to get them? Do you see that these dogs are mostly friendly to people or do some lines show human aggression? Do you have any notion what goes into the Boz dogs at all? Ive been advised to euthenize due to unknown risk, but we are trying to watch her behavior. Years ago I fostered a game dog and hunted with my pit hog dog, so once we started managing her like a game bred dog, her behavior is very predictable and easy to manage-just not an LGD by any means.

    Thanks for any information you can provide
     
    Ogeday38 likes this.
  4. Arya

    Arya Pup

    Picture of my girl.
     

    Attached Files:

    david63 likes this.
  5. A neighbors 140 lb male kangal gets loose all the time and comes into my yard and gets aggressive with my dogs. He acts like he wants to rip them to shreds. The kangal could probably kill my dogs (I have 4) which are a lab, German shepherd, and an 85 pit bull (pet bull) that my wife adores. I’m putting up a privacy fence before long so that should fix the issue hopefully

    Because of the kangal coming in my yard, I put my 4th dog (50 lbs) in the house. He’s become a house dog which took a lot a lot a lot of work and still takes a lot of work. I didn’t bring in my 4th dog out of fear the kangal would hurt him or worse, I put the dog in the house due to knowing my dog would take care of business if that kangal ever jumped on him in his own back yard, and I don’t want anything to happen to the neighbors dog even though it’s owner is being an idiot for letting him roam the streets.

    When the kangal attacked a Doberman, somebody called animal control and the police. The police were very surprised at how friendly my 50 lb boy was with them they came back a few days later with some treats for him

    Because I’m being responsible with my dog, he gets to suffer and has to be inside more. He still gets plenty of exercise but it stinks since it’s due to a dog owner being irresponsible.
     
  6. Ogeday38

    Ogeday38 Pup

    Sorry for the late reaction, but I hope you get to read this message.
    The Boz Dog thing is a touchy subject. The name of the breed was given a by a certain respectable breeder who was against putting a Kangal label on every dog from Turkey. Spent decades on researching the breed, how it differed from a Kangal, it's characteristics, phenotype, history etc. Eventually, he named the breed to one of his own studs, who's name (surprisingly) was...Boz. The dog in the picure below.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    However, Boz was a fighting dog, as was the lineage he came from. The breeder continued to breed based on his research and mostly used dogs from the same lineage as well as inbreeding. Basically, the dogs that originate from the region where Boz' line came from (Nevsehir and surroundings), were fighting dogs. However, as smart as the man is, he knew that in cross-border trade the label 'fighting dog' would attract a lot of negative attention. Thus eventually, he used dogs of the type from south-east Turkey called Gureh that fitted the exact type for his breeding purposes. Eventually, those dogs could display good behaviour around livestock. As you notice, more muscular and larger than a Kangal but not as heavy and mastiffy as a Malakli. (see pics below)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    However, the majority of those dogs are bred to fight for many generations back but the LGD part was used to distract from that purpose. The "founder" of the breed could target a larger group, especially cross-border, to sell his dogs. Which eventually led to these dogs being sold to the US and you look like you got your hands on one.

    So basically, there is now a bunch of very dog-aggressive large dogs walking around in the US, being sold as LGD's while they weren't bred to do so. They trace back to a line of dogs who were fighters and are still used for fights, but it's bad marketing when you want to introduce these dogs outside the borders of Turkey. As for your female, you'll see black and tan ones, white spotted ones, even black examples as the dogs weren't typically bred for their looks. If I were you, I would just treat her as you would treat your game dogs.
     
    GermanGamedogHunter likes this.
  7. I was hoping you can give me some insight. I'm interested in getting a kangal and I know a person who claims they have a purebred kangal.

    The person claims he has a purebred from Sivas in Turkey. He says his dogs are from Baris Cicek? Not to sure who that is but I was hoping you can give me some answers.

    Thanks.
     
  8. That dog was basically ran and thrown to scratch, plus it was the top dog throughout the fight, let's see it make a legitimate scratch after taking a paggering for 10 mins.
     
    Patch likes this.

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