Lar-san

I myself prefer a game bred dog as gameness is the essence of the APBT. Without gameness, you have a staff.

I agree pretty is not a bad thing, everyone likes a pretty dog & L/S dogs are very pretty dogs, as are others. IMO Zebo dogs are pretty & Jeep dogs are pretty too, among others. I also like SBTs.

And yes, form must follow function & if the L/S dogs have the heart for it, they can be tremendous competetors if they want to be. But looks alone don't cut the mustard. You gotta have the heart to do the work too.

As far as UKC, I myself do not look at that. I look at the dog, not the registry. In fact, I knew of a UKC female who would have been DG had she been allowed to have been. So registry means nothing.

As for Bill & why he had L/S dogs, who knows? Maybe he came across a good one like I did & decided to keep that line. But that doesn't change the fact that if L/S dogs were throwing game dogs on a consistent basis, dog men would be regularly using them, which they aren't.

And finally as for Sandy & Kim, I do not know the deal between them & Bill. I spoke to them personally concerning WP, Sandy on her message board & Kim on the board & over the phone & believe me they were super pissed when they found out about WP putting dogs down. Kim freaked out & tried to get the dog back.

 

Diggit-- I didn't understand when you said that LarSan dogs are not true to Breed Type. How a dog is bred doos not determine if it has or lacks breed type. There are plenty of dogs out of gamebred litters that lack "type." All "type" means is, does the dog look like an APBT from across the ring. No they are not game dogs nor were they bred with that in mind, but they are far from what "I" consider to be an AMSTAFF. My dogs are not game and I am not trying to find out, but what I can say is that they are highly DA and would not hesitate to get busy, typical for the breed.

If the AKC never introduced the name "AMSTAFF," then what name would we have for the show dogs of today? If the AMSTAFF never existed then what would call those dogs that were bred for show and no go?

 

Can some some one help me find these two dogs H & S chevey built tough and walsh's irish rose if you find them that's what makes my dogs ped I suck at reading peds I think is lar san bred and iam not sure about garners capone I want to know how he was bred or kuzminski's CH big pay day

 

We'd call them curs. bwahahahahahaha!!!!

I apologize in advance to any I offended w/ that comment, but I just couldn't help myself!

But seriously, that is a valid question. In every breed where there are show & field counterparts the breed name remains the same. For example, there are show Cockers & field Cockers but both varieties are called Cocker Spaniels, show English setters & field English setters, but both varieties are called English setters, etc. Only in the pit bull is the name different.

 

Thanks ABK, well put and I am not offended. Only in our breed do you have as much controversy over which is which, based off of what they were bred to do.

 

Actually, it is not only in our breed Mason. Ask a working German Shepherd person what they think of AKC show German Shepherds. Then run & duck for cover b/c the mess will begin to fly, fast & furious!

In any breed that started out as a working breed & is being taken over by show folks there is always a division among those who want to keep them working dogs & others who want to breed for show.

The fact is once you start to breed for show it is almost always the downfall of the breed. Let's go back to the Cockers & setters for example. They're beautiful dogs, but a show Cocker would get caught up in every bramble bush it encountered & it would probably bite the shite out of you if you tried to untangle it. Show setters meanwhile usually don't have sense enough to come in out of the rain, let alone set & flush birds.

And it's happening now to the poor Neapolitan mastiff. What used to be a majestic working molosser is being reduced to a bag of wrinkles that probably can't see through it's own skin by the AKC show set.

 

if its a TRUE APBT it will be bred for the same thing it always has been... GAMENESS.

all it takes is common sense just because a dog is dog aggressive or "hot" doesnt mean anything at all.

we all know what lar-san falls under and its not gameness, they have generation and generation of being bred for looks MOST look to fit the UKC standard and are on the larger side.

 

Seems like this thread is falling under the catagory of "repeat, and repeat again".

 

Edited-off topic-DryCreek

i haven't really visited this site in about a year. i come back and its still the same

besides....someone who hasn't only experienced this breed thru books and forums would know that gameness is not the only thing that matters in a bulldog. but lets take baby steps.

 

I will admit feeling like I'm in a hamster wheel sometimes. The only way to test for gameness is illegal, and therefore dangerous in my eyes. Yet if you try to breed for legal alternatives, you get raked over the coals for not keeping the breed true. The question is, how close can you get to the sport without becoming guilty by association, and therefore risking your dogs and yourself? And if someone chooses not to take that risk, is it really as ruinous for the dogs as it is made out to be? Is there really no legal way to maintain these dogs as close as possible to the original without going over the line?

Its a big-ass can of worms. I hate worms.

 

Your answer is simple: NO

 

repeat and repeat until people get it through there heads... it seems people like to deny the truth.

if you hate worms why do you deal with this breed then? they were bred to do somthing... most people that own "pit bulls" detest it.. its kind of hypocritical.

point is CALL IT WHAT IT IS.
and understand the truth, stop denying it.

could somone go into more detail?

 

According to you, I deal with AmStaffs, so what does it matter? Besides, it is the people that bring the worms. I would be very content doing what I do and perpetuating APBTs my own way. It is others who want to put their own qualifiers on that.

 

If not APBT what Breed then ??

i owned some castillo's and stuff with larsan before and they are a seprate breed from a TRUE apbt.

Spoken like a true purist.

Your going to tell me Castillo's/Lar-San & don't forget Amber-Lite are a seperate BREED ? My dogs got drive for days+they look good.

if you haven't rolled the last two dogs you bred. Then you have a different breed aswell.

 

Truth? What exact truth are you talking about? You come on here talking about AMSTAFF one minute then breed for gamness another, like you have all this knowledge and experience. My dogs are APBT's and that is what I will call them, whether you like it or not. Yes they are UKC dogs but name another line that has as many dual champions UKC/ADBA? Whatever thay are bred to do, THEY ARE DAMN GOOD AT IT.

 

I had to back-track a second.

Edited-take personal issues to p.m.'s please-DryCreek

The only thing I can see different between your dogs and mine, is that my dogs don't look like they missed a few meals. You sit here and talk about gameness and how dog aggression are not the same, as IF none of us know that. Please tell us something we don't know. You say your dogs are GAME and you LIKE THEM HOT, but how did you distinguish your dogs from GAME that they supposively are, and just plain everyday dog aggression, EH?? I know, because you bought them from an ADBA breeder? LOLOLOL........

 

Steff/hemi This Is You ??

WTF-

Still hating.

 

Re: If not APBT what Breed then ??

Luis, I would hope she doesn't breed. Under her own standard, she wouldn't breed ANY of her dogs if they werent tested and proclaimed game. Doesn't seem as if she'll be doing any breedings in her lifetime.

Yeah, Lar-San and Castillo lines are a separate breed from the APBT. Oh, thats right, you and I have UKC AmStaffs. :rolleyes:

 

Re: If not APBT what Breed then ??

Take it to p.m.'s please

 

Re: If not APBT what Breed then ??

lol...."excite biter".....that makes me laugh. she's got no clue what that means. I love it when people try to flaunt their internet-education.

this is the same girl who just before i left for afghanistan, told me to
"do the world a favor - go off to war and dont come back".....when i told her she should, as a self-proclaimed responsible owner, put her man-biter down.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=215633