New Am Bully Bloodline

Is it possible to create my own XL American Bully bloodline from the ground up, using only Game Pit Bulls, UKC type Pit bulls and Amstaffs ? ( I know it will be considered a mutt, I get it) However, I recall Dave Wilson claiming he’s only used those two breeds in the development of Razors Edge (which I call bull****). But, I understand that other known bully bloodlines have incorporated multiple bulldog breeds. I don’t plan on doing that at all, I am very familiar with game dogs and their high prey drive but through my selective breeding I hope to water down their prey drive as I would want my Am Bully bloodline to have a good temperament around other pets/animals. I mean no disrespect to those with game dogs and appreciate those preserving the real APBT. Furthermore while this isn’t something I plan on doing soon, it is a project I want to develop in the next 20 years. The goal being to create a superior athlete and healthier life than the Bullies of today. I’m not a backyard breeder or kennel. But I do intend to health test all dogs used in my future program using Embark, OFA, Pennhip, etc..Your feedback is greatly appreciated. This isn’t something I’m going to rush into but rather strategically plan step by step.

 

Simple answer is- sure why the hell not? Everyone else has. The better answer is....do you REALLY have the knowledge/determination/time, and willingness to FAIL over and over? Can you cull hard to better a breed? I personally don’t think anyone should breed unless you are going to better said breed. I’ve wanted to start a yard for years. But I’ve realized I’m a breed enthusiast and should leave the breeding to the actual dogmen out there who have the time and knowledge. There are so many awesome proven lines out there! Why not pick one and preserve a great breed? These American bullies have ruined the APBT name in a lot of cases because of fad breeders. They get a hot line and breed it to a HA mastiff type line and create ticking time bombs. Real APBT’s suffer because of it. Razors edge/gotti/ remy are all just a bunch of TRASH. The dogs are unhealthy/ugly all show and no go clowns. They suck at weight pull/agility/dock jumping and have shit temperaments. I know because plenty of my buddies have them. I’ve been bitten by two while on my dirt bike, and had one growl at my 18 month old. My AB and OFRN have never so much as looked at a kid wrong. What I’m getting at is if you’re not going to work this dog there are plenty of stable proven breeds/lines already out there. Why reinvent the wheel?? Sorry for the rant

 

You make very valid points. I would say I am confident in my knowledge of breeding and how dogs function. I come from a family of breeders who train Belgian Malinois and Dutch dogs for the KNPV. I currently have a bachelors in Animal Genetics and Major in canine behavioral genetics. My wife is already a certified veterinarian having delivered more than 50 litters herself. I got into the pit bull and American bullies from my uncle because he took me to adba and abkc shows, so I do intend to work all my dogs, as I already work my 3 dogs, I have a boxer, a Bolio dog, and a staff mix. I would say I have nothing but time, as most of my job can be completed at home. Putting money into my future program is not a problem, I understand I will be losing a lot of money but I’m not in it for the money. I understand there will be ups and downs as I have seen it first hand. Culling dogs that don’t fit my criteria is not a issue. Those dogs will be spayed and neutered, as I understand that they will not be part of my breeding program. If I need to keep the neutered culls then so be it, because I certainly would NEVER want any of my dogs to be in a shelter. Finding a Forever home is always the goal, and i don’t see that being a problem as I have hundreds of family members and friends that i know would co own or buy a dog from me. I want to keep all my dogs relatively close to me so i know who I am selling to. Breeding quality instead of quantity is a motto I go by. I will never breed solely for color and never will create a merle dog. As I said before I do intend to better the breed, you said it yourself, the bullies of now are mostly garbage. That is why I want to reinvent my own wheel because of the trash that uneducated breeders have made. I do not want to create a fat/ obese/ walking heart attack dog. My priority is to consistently create temperament, structure, and performance. As far as space goes, I have nothing but space, I own 4 acres of land. And as far as your question to why shouldn’t I just stick to a proven line or breed? I must say having owned a lot of GAME APBT I want to start getting away from the high prey drive. I’m not a hunter so no need. And I want my dogs to get along, my bolio is a cur which is why he just chills with my other dogs. I wouldn’t want to create a bloodline off someone else’s bloodline because I wouldn’t know the health of the dogs they used to create their am bully. Which is why me creating an Am Bully from the ground up is ideal for me as I can evaluate each and every single dog down to their genotype and phenotype. To summarize, I would say I’m more than capable of completing this “journey”, I have all the resources, I would never become a puppy mill, my dogs will never see a shelter, I will only sell to a select few and I probably will never see a profit coming in return, which is fine with me. I did my best in trying to cover all your concerns of my FUTURE program that I have yet started but am currently planning. So anyone want an update in 20 years? lol

 

I sincerely believe the dog you want to “create” already exists, and it rhymes with “American Bulldog”. I just picked up a pup from Don Matthews(konfederate kennels) a few months ago. The AB is basically the dog you want to create, but it’s already here. Don has been breeding since 1970 and he and Alan Scott still cruise around the country and judge shows together. If you don’t Alan Scott- we’ve got a problem. The story of the AB is something like this(one of the stories). They wanted a hard dog a little bigger than the APBT for hog hunting that wouldn’t turn on one another during a hunt. You could see how a game dog wouldn’t be ideal. Anyway- don, Alan Scott, Lem Miller, and a few others created the scott(standard) Johnson, and a few other decent blood lines Hines, etc. do yourself a favor and read up on AB’s. I think you’ll find you won’t be disappointed. As with EVERY other breed there is a tremendous amount of bullshit to decipher. Avoid stories of OSW‍♂️. Anyway- I’m glad to talk dogs all day everyday.

 

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I am familiar with Don Matthews and Alan Scott in the AB world, however there dogs is not exactly what I’m looking for. See the reason why I want to create my version of the American Bully is so I can health test each and every single dog for any inherited genetic traits that I don’t want in my program like hip dysplasia or retinal degeneration. That way I can be capable of maximizing my dogs potential lifespan. The American Bulldogs you referred to are a brachycephalic breed, meaning their snout is to short causing it to have trouble breathing. Now you see where there’s a problems? If I want to create a healthy bloodline why would I use a dog with known breathing problems? That’s counterintuitive. It’s the exact same thing with the short snouted American Bullies, they have trouble breathing which is why they huff and puff a lot. So see my ideal breed/ bloodlines has not been created. I would selectively breed for a mesocephalic snout (longer snout in short ) , which allows proper airway for the lungs. Also, I know not all but most of his AB are white and I have no intention in using “white colored” dogs either as white is not a color in dogs but a lack of pigment. And genetically speaking if a pup was born with a lack of pigment in its eye or ears it would be blind or deaf. Thanks for your suggestions and input, Don Matthews sure does have good looking dogs but not what I’m looking for.

 

Well, you must not be too familiar because standard AB’s were bred for just that. Also- English bulldogs suffer from obstructive airway syndromes more than any AB. Scott’s line dogs have ton of pit in them and the short snout has been bred right out through selective breeding. They also have wind tunnels for nostrils, and nice deep chests. Now- Johnson lines are different. But I’m sure you know that..... Literally all of the reasons you want to “create” this line have already been considered. The genetic testing typically isnt done because it’s expensive and the real dogmen didn’t care as long as their dogs are living long lives(10+ years). Having a degree is animal science is a formality to most of these guys. They live it everyday and test their dogs hard. A piece of paper is fire starter for them. “I can shit in a box and mark it guaranteed” is pretty much what you’ll get. Check out American sentinel K9’s. He’ll be right up your alley.

 

He’s 4 months old, runs at least a mile a day at around 5-7 mph with my quad. Weighs almost 50lbs. Has a superb temperament with low prey drive. Is protective of my home and daughter. Looks suspiciously similar to tudors black Jack...hmmm.

 

Friend, the working lines of AB have sufficient length of muzzle not exaggerated like the show AB. They have to be able to breathe when hunting wild boar or there worthless. There are a few of the right sort out there Check out Jam up Bulldogs he has the old school working lines.

 

Hmm okay well here’s what I’ll do. Thanks for the suggestions, I actually have been looking into the American Sentinel from Lee Robinson I believe, his dogs are more of what I’m looking for. I will also try and give Konfederate Kennels a call so I can get more information about the health of his dogs from the man himself. @ Asselman I haven’t heard of Jam Up Bulldog but I will also give that a look. Thanks for the feedback lads.

 

I just checked out their website and I am honestly impressed with Buster Brown, I think I’ll be leaning toward that direction. Like I said before I don’t plan on breeding for like 20 years, so all of this was hypothetical. And @CopperOFRN I do like the look of Konfederate Kennels Rodie, thanks for the suggestion

 

I know them both Allen Scott and Don Matthews are honest and good people.

 

I heard School Boy talk about when he was deep into the dogs he was trying to breed big dogs for high paying Asian customers that wanted big game bred bulldogs for matching in Asia probably to go against huge dogs like Tosa's. Anyhow he said he bred his Big Red dog into lots of big bitches trying to get large match dogs and and the biggest dog ended up being 45lbs. So big dog's don't guarantee big or bigger offspring. Bamaman on this forum has blue bully type dog he found or had given to him and its the type of dog you are breeding for. Its a big athletic dog that's very well put together and he says it's like a Jack Russel and I know he uses him as a hog dog and he says he is damn good at it and after seeing photos of the dog I believe him looks to be a force to reckon with just a huge tough looking dog that is put together perfect. Maybe he will read this and post a picture or two on here. Best of luck with your breeding.

 

Sir you can breed your own bully line, horse line pig line , chow chow line & so on.
Regardless of what you breed the rules don't change.
You just have to be consistent . Establish a base and build around it.
Simple as that.

 

Then why use game bloodlines? Just buy a Camelot, bossy or Gemini kennels pup and call it a day. Stuff like this is the reason why I am switching from bullies to game APBT. Even though my dogs are classic.

 

Sounds Like another banddoge program.

 

Well big dogs are harder to handle I'll say that much . This particular dog acts way more Terrier like .

 

I wouldn't venture to far up that alley unless you got some committed help.

 

He is a good solid catch dog but would get his ass handed to him by real one .But he is big and rough on a hog and lots of local hog hunters do like him.

 

Maybe I’m a miserable bastard but I just think why even bother? What will this new breed of dog do better than what’s already out there? Sorta reminds me of a time when it seemed loads of people wanted to recreate the English bulldog. Gave the story of how they wanna breed a healthier version. Truth is most just wanted to sell pups to earn money. Majority gave up n know for sure a few jumped onto other hyped up shit breeds currently selling for silly prices.

Here in the uk it seems every low level drug dealer has popped up with an Instagram page trying to sell these bully dogs. Usually have a stupid name relating to the lifestyle the idiots seem to think is glamorous. Names like Gotti ,Chapo or Kilo lol posing with them on the estate in their tracksuit. Only thing I feel sorry for is the dogs, seen as nothing more than investments. So even the fucked up ones with health problems get bred to recoup the outlay. Owned by low iq idiots with egos in a lot of cases. So no surprise we’ve seen attacks start happening over here. Just glad the media haven’t been as quick as times to call the dogs pitbulls. Even though quite surprised many haven’t been taken under the danger dogs act where they’ll kill your dog for looking like a pitbull type. Only positive I see I guess is such people being more into these dogs keeps them away from pitbulls. Plus the public are more looking at these cross bred mutts as being the problematic dogs. Even though as usual most of the time it comes down to the type of owners they have.

Anyway save yourself a lot of time and don’t even bother breeding more shit dogs.